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waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
I read something different between the lines. 'Look at QLD, only reason they are where they are is because of the influence we [ARU] had.' Not saying there wasn't cooperation there, just get the shits with people taking more credit then they deserve.

It's a line in a press release though. U don't know the question he was asked or how long he actually spoke for. He may have given QLD a heap of credit but the autor chose those particular quotes. It's really impossible to judge.

The ARU have been doing a pretty good job at turning round something the last board f'd pretty hard. Hopefully they leave the next board a solid foundation to push ahead instead of having to react to situations.
 

suckerforred

Chilla Wilson (44)
It's a line in a press release though. U don't know the question he was asked or how long he actually spoke for. He may have given QLD a heap of credit but the autor chose those particular quotes. It's really impossible to judge.

The ARU have been doing a pretty good job at turning round something the last board f'd pretty hard. Hopefully they leave the next board a solid foundation to push ahead instead of having to react to situations.

Point taken. Off my soap box now. Shouldn't let shitty work incidents effect what I see here.
 
N

Newter

Guest
Curious, did you watch any of the u20 games this year? Why does he get credit for bringing players through the u20s? These guys are talents in their own right and would've progressed to Super rugby regardless of Nucifora.

Nuci was horribly exposed in the u20s, as Hawko says our pack was completely outplayed and overpowered by NZ and France. This was not a size issue at all which could be excused at this level, our pack was generally bigger or the same as those two sides. The technique of our pack was terrible, we constantly got pushed off the ball and were beaten in intensity and numbers in the breakdown. The only good thing all tournament was the scrum, which showed our pack did have the physicality just not the smarts. Our backline also faulted, throughout the whole tournament there was a clear issue with the 10, he stood too far back yet it wasn't addressed the whole tournament.

The u20 campaign was a huge failure and leaves little to be excited about in the future, we were the 6th best team there. Nuci was out of his depth there which is pretty worrying for someone who is in such an important role currently with the Wallabies.

I take it you base this assessment on the 2011 performance against the Baby Blacks in the semi-final? A team that has won 14 in a row against all comers? Were we really favourites for that match, or was it just that our players were better known because they'd been on the bench in Super rugby that season? I'm sure those young NZ forwards had been toiling away in the less heralded but arguably more valuable campaigns of the Air NZ Cup.

Just for the record, Australia finished 3rd at the Junior World Cup last year. Not 6th, which you've just pulled out of the air! In fact Nucifora has taken the U20s to the semi-finals three years running, including a grand final appearance in 2010. The fact is Nucifora has had the U20s winning their pool consistently when in previous years we had begun to slip. In 2008 we missed the semi-finals, for example, before Nuci took over.
 
N

Newter

Guest
Went back and had a look at that U20s semi-final against the Baby Blacks. You can watch it here http://www.irb.com/jwc/video/index.html It's pretty clear that the bigger athletes on the field were New Zealanders, not us. The Kiwi 6, Sam Cane, is especially strong. He and No. 8 Luke Whitelock had it all over us.

Even though the final score was 7-37, we actually played with a lot of shape and effectiveness for most of the match. We scored an excellent team try after multiple phases in the first 20 minutes, and won plenty of possession throughout the game. The critical BB tries came from elementary mistakes by individual Aussies - an awkward miss on the BB winger, a missed tackle by Simon Morahan at fullback, and a miss-pass that was toed ahead. Those individuals let the team down, but the team as a whole looked well coached.
 
N

Newter

Guest
And I like the prospects of Kuridrani and Siliva Siliva, who are now at the Brumbies, as well as Luke Jones, a Melbourne Rebel. Those guys did good things with the ball all game.
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
I take it you base this assessment on the 2011 performance against the Baby Blacks in the semi-final? A team that has won 14 in a row against all comers? Were we really favourites for that match, or was it just that our players were better known because they'd been on the bench in Super rugby that season? I'm sure those young NZ forwards had been toiling away in the less heralded but arguably more valuable campaigns of the Air NZ Cup.

Just for the record, Australia finished 3rd at the Junior World Cup last year. Not 6th, which you've just pulled out of the air! In fact Nucifora has taken the U20s to the semi-finals three years running, including a grand final appearance in 2010. The fact is Nucifora has had the U20s winning their pool consistently when in previous years we had begun to slip. In 2008 we missed the semi-finals, for example, before Nuci took over.

No it was mainly the performance against France but obviously the NZ loss as well. And you don't need to tell me how good NZ are, I was in the u20s thread on here defending us for losing with the excuse that we should not expect to beat NZ because they are by nature better rugby players at this age due to ITM cup and depth etc. However I thought we should've competed much better and put in a prouder performance. Colby Fainga'a and Michael Hooper aren't bench Super Rugby players, they have started games and physically been up to it, Fainga'a was a one man team in that thrashing by the Crusaders, he was not out-muscled. It was no surprise those two were our best players so I don't see how NZ having Whitelock and Cane who are great players in their own right should make such a difference. Man for man we match up pretty well I reckon but the they didn't play as a cohesive unit (surprise, surprise a problem at the top level as well) - this is a coaching issue.

Well aware we finished 3rd, but I don't believe we were the 3rd best team there for one second. NZ and England clearly better than us. France beat us in the pools and then we got a revenge victory in the 3/4 playoff but I watched the France/England game and France were decimated with injuries in that one, the teamlists were quite different. South Africa and Ireland were better than us if you look at their results, they were in a harder pool so it was much tougher to qualify.

NZ weren't bigger than us, we had 2 big locks and 2 of the backrowers were proven at Super Rugby level, that did lack height however. The front row competed well in the scrums and carried well, it was the breakdown, ball carrying and contact defense of some of the players where we got dominated.

Greg Peterson did not impress me at all and I find it odd he got a Tahs contract, that said I am told he was playing with a shoulder injury for most of the tournament and that might've affected him, but why was a young player pushed with injury? He has now had a shoulder reconstruction and has missed most of the Tahs pre-season. The Rebels did pick up some good young players in Luke Jones and Paul Alo-Emile however.

It was very worrying how much we faded in that semi against NZ, it's hard to say if the team had a fitness level or if we went too hard at the start. The intensity of the players definitely deteriorated. Like all tries they generally do come from individual errors but that is because as a team they have been put under pressure. Conceding that many points against NZ wasn't too bad if you look at the scorelines throughout the tournament - it was that we only scored 7. The attack was non existent after that first 20 minutes. As mentioned before the 10 was clearly flawed by persisted with the whole tournament. The skills and execution of the backs were quite simply not good enough at that level if you compare them to the English and NZ backs. This is a coaching issue, these players will catch up in Super Rugby environments but at the moment Australia is way behind in terms of junior development. Most clubs in Europe have professional academies from age 16 that compete regularly against each other. This is only more evident when an England u18 side toured down here and thrashed our boys.
 
N

Newter

Guest
No it was mainly the performance against France but obviously the NZ loss as well. And you don't need to tell me how good NZ are, I was in the u20s thread on here defending us for losing with the excuse that we should not expect to beat NZ because they are by nature better rugby players at this age due to ITM cup and depth etc. However I thought we should've competed much better and put in a prouder performance. Colby Fainga'a and Michael Hooper aren't bench Super Rugby players, they have started games and physically been up to it, Fainga'a was a one man team in that thrashing by the Crusaders, he was not out-muscled. It was no surprise those two were our best players so I don't see how NZ having Whitelock and Cane who are great players in their own right should make such a difference. Man for man we match up pretty well I reckon but the they didn't play as a cohesive unit (surprise, surprise a problem at the top level as well) - this is a coaching issue.

Well aware we finished 3rd, but I don't believe we were the 3rd best team there for one second. NZ and England clearly better than us. France beat us in the pools and then we got a revenge victory in the 3/4 playoff but I watched the France/England game and France were decimated with injuries in that one, the teamlists were quite different. South Africa and Ireland were better than us if you look at their results, they were in a harder pool so it was much tougher to qualify.

NZ weren't bigger than us, we had 2 big locks and 2 of the backrowers were proven at Super Rugby level, that did lack height however. The front row competed well in the scrums and carried well, it was the breakdown, ball carrying and contact defense of some of the players where we got dominated.

Greg Peterson did not impress me at all and I find it odd he got a Tahs contract, that said I am told he was playing with a shoulder injury for most of the tournament and that might've affected him, but why was a young player pushed with injury? He has now had a shoulder reconstruction and has missed most of the Tahs pre-season. The Rebels did pick up some good young players in Luke Jones and Paul Alo-Emile however.

It was very worrying how much we faded in that semi against NZ, it's hard to say if the team had a fitness level or if we went too hard at the start. The intensity of the players definitely deteriorated. Like all tries they generally do come from individual errors but that is because as a team they have been put under pressure. Conceding that many points against NZ wasn't too bad if you look at the scorelines throughout the tournament - it was that we only scored 7. The attack was non existent after that first 20 minutes. As mentioned before the 10 was clearly flawed by persisted with the whole tournament. The skills and execution of the backs were quite simply not good enough at that level if you compare them to the English and NZ backs. This is a coaching issue, these players will catch up in Super Rugby environments but at the moment Australia is way behind in terms of junior development. Most clubs in Europe have professional academies from age 16 that compete regularly against each other. This is only more evident when an England u18 side toured down here and thrashed our boys.

Really you've just shown why Nucifora has to start from behind the 8 ball every year in the U20s. It's remarkable that he's achieved what he has with the skinny athletes on hand. Watching England and NZ, it is plainly obvious they are at least a year or two ahead in their physical development and understanding of their roles. Nucifora's 19 year olds are mostly amateurs unused to a high standard of rugby. No wonder they make mistakes that lead to tries - and they are generally unforced errors. I'm just impressed that they hold it together and play some good rugby 90% of the game.

You say there is no cohesion in the team under Nucifora. I saw plenty of organised play. Just not enough athletes to punch through. After a while this attrition becomes a mental contest, and it's plain that some of the kids playing aren't used to that. Simon Morahan's missed tackle on Whitelock was elementary. We gave up a few soft tries between the 50th-60th minute, and that was the game.

Just on Colby - he plays more as a 7, tidying up loose ball and scampering a meter or two. He's very good at that, but not a crash and thunder enforcer like some of the bigger NZ lads.
 
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