Line out strategies

[mark_s]

Thanks Scott, thats excellent analysis. It does seem like the tahs line up was back further than needed which, combined with an inccurate reds lift, distorts the viewing for a one eyed tahs fan.

Only other thing I noted was that Higgenbottom got a big jump on Mumm and I think that was just as much a contributor to the penalty as anything else as Mumm was trying to "cut a corner" to catch up which meant his was jumping at a much bigger angle.

I will try and find the other lineout from the first half on tape to satsify my own curiosity, but its probably the same.

 

[Ash]

mark_s; when I used to jump at 2 (a long time ago) I would watch the opposition jumper's feet, as that would give you a better indication that the hooker. Point is, at 2, if you miss the jump like Mumm on that occasion (and this happens more often then not), you'll always be too slow to make a play at the ball. As a result, you will be more jumping sideways than up just to get a hand in to disrupt the ball rather than catch it - which is what I think Mumm was trying. He just went too far sideways (and as Austin says, looks like he was thrown sideways by Kepu as well), and took out the opposition pod. I don't think this is an uncommon event, and should always be a penalty.

Defensive jumpers at 2 who can read the throw and get up quickly can cause massive issues to an opposition's line out.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Thanks, Scott Allen, for providing the video which shows clearly the dynamics of this particular lineout. However I cannot agree with your view that "the lift was poor" because "Higginbotham had to reach across to make the take". On the contrary I think the Queensland lineout displayed exemplary technique. Higginbotham's jump was perfectly vertical from his initial foot placement and he reached across to take the ball which was straight down the centre line. His ascent was very rapid suggesting that he had pre-loaded by stretching the muscle/tendon complex prior to contraction.

As Scott points out the 'Tahs pack is lined up too wide of the centre line. The Reds' front man (17) is standing on the 5 metre line with Higginbotham a metre behind him whereas the 'Tahs' front man (Kepu) is level with Higginbotham with Mumm about a metre-and-a-half further back. Thus Mumm is well behind the man he is marking.

Mumm correctly reads that Higginbotham is to be the receiver. He moves forward and across towards the centre line but the other 'Tahs forwards do not move across. Mumm puts his weight on his inside (left) leg then onto his outside leg but has inadequate knee bend when he attempts to jump. He therefore has very limited spring and has to be lifted by his supports who are out of line with him and therefore push him into the opposition..

 

[Hawko]

In the following video I’ve slowed the footage down and frozen it at a couple of relevant points. I’ve also added a line down the centre of the lineout. I know lines and camera angles don’t work perfectly together but it gives you an idea.

The first point is the gap between the teams – the laws say each team must be half a metre either side of the centre line (hence the 1 metre gap we all hear referred to). The Reds appear set about half a metre off the centre line but the Tahs are set much further away. I’m not sure if this is due to an instruction earlier from the referee or whether the Tahs chose to set there. The only reason (apart from referee instructions) I can think of for any team setting that far away would be a tactic to make it look that the throw was too far on the throwing teams side but that doesn’t seem like a good tactic to me as being so far away you make it impossible to compete for the ball and are relying on the referee too much. Much better to compete in my opinion.

The laws say the throw must be straight and referees generally interpret this as the ball must be thrown in the 1 metre channel and be on the inside shoulder of the team throwing. The throw in this case is in the channel and was on the inside shoulder. I’ve frozen the footage at the frame immediately before Higginbotham touches the ball. Is the throw straight down the middle of the channel? No, but only by a small margin and it’s very rare that you would see that called “not straight” in any game.

The penalty against Mumm was correct on two fronts. First he does play the jumper in the air. He does wrap his arm around the jumper and whilst the arm may not have had much impact, if a referee sees an arm wrapped, you will be penalised. The second reason a penalty should have been awarded is that Mumm takes the lifter out. Looking at the wide shot you can see that Mumm was lifted into this position by Kepu. Watch Kepu turn sideways to throw Mumm across the line, not up to compete for the ball. From the front on shot you can see that the back lifter was late and hardly even got a hand on Mumm. The issue is that Mumm came across the line and took Simmons out who was the back lifter. It was that which caused Higginbotham to be dropped and that should have been a penalty for taking the lifter out.

As I've stated previously, I agree that it should be a penalty for taking him out in the air. But your analysis raises some issues that I think are pertinent:

• Virtually no Super referees are happy with a one metre gap. A one metre gap means that the two sides should be able to almost touch each others shoulders as they stand before jumping. The arm length of a standard lock standing about 2 metres tall has to be around 900mm, I'm 1.75m with short arms and mine is 750mm. Referees insist on a one metre gap and by that they usually mean at least a one metre gap to the centreline of the lineout for the defending team and a bit less for the attacking team. You'll see that sort of gap in the video insisted on all day long by the current refereeing fraternity.
• I am not all that uncomfortable with that. Its not according to the rules but having the two lines that close makes it hard to adjudicate on skullduggery and could lead to lineouts becoming dockyard brawls like they used to be. BUT..
• If the gap is to be set wider than a metre, which it almost always is, then to be fair to the contest for the ball the throw must go right down the middle of the gap. This is not the same as 0.5m from the attacking jumper's shoulder.

It is in that context that I say that that particular lineout throw was not straight. For me it is not straight unless each line in the lineout has equal chance to and distance to jump for the ball. The only attacking advantage should be knowing where, when and how the ball will be thrown.

 

[Scott Allen]

Bruce, I should clarify my comments.

I said "The lift was poor and Higginbotham had to reach across to make the take". I agree that the jump was exemplary and as you point out Higginbotham jumps dynamically and straight up.

The following image shows the lift was poor for three reasons.

1. The front lifter (Holmes) has his hands on the outside of Higginbotham's legs and accordingly his hands and elbows are too far apart - this means he cannot get full extension with his arms. The image shows how his arms remain bent when Higginbotham is at the top of his jump which takes a fair bit of distance off the maximum height of the jumper. This is a common fault but is poor technique.

2. Holmes also does not keep his hands together and as a result the left hand is higher than the right hand which pushes Higginbotham away from the ball forcing him to have to reach back for the ball.

3. Even though Higginbotham has still not got the ball the rear lifter (Simmons) has already turned his body outwards to bring Higginbotham down on the Reds side of the lineout. Whilst this is good technique once the jumper is coming down, by making this movement before Higginbotham has the ball, Simmons moves him away from the ball and forces him to have to reach back for the ball.

Whilst the lifters and jumpers must work together, in this case they didn't and a good jump was impaired by a poor lift.

 

[Scott Allen]

Hawko

The gap in this particular lineout was well beyond many others in the same match. The following clip shows many lineouts in this match where the gap is around the 1 metre mark. The last two lineouts show a much larger gap.

The footage doesn't show the gap for all lineouts but it's interesting that the three lineouts in the match (the penalty aganst Mumm and these last two) where the gap is quite large were when the Tahs were defending.

Either the referee wasn't consistent in setting the gap (which shouldn't happen and if it did, disadvantaged the Tahs) or the Tahs were varying their distance as a tactic.

Your view on what should be considered not straight is not the way throws are interpreted by referees all over the world.

 

[spooony]

Bruce, I should clarify my comments.

I said "The lift was poor and Higginbotham had to reach across to make the take". I agree that the jump was exemplary and as you point out Higginbotham jumps dynamically and straight up.

The following image shows the lift was poor for three reasons.

1. The front lifter (Holmes) has his hands on the outside of Higginbotham's legs and accordingly his hands and elbows are too far apart - this means he cannot get full extension with his arms. The image shows how his arms remain bent when Higginbotham is at the top of his jump which takes a fair bit of distance off the maximum height of the jumper. This is a common fault but is poor technique.

2. Holmes also does not keep his hands together and as a result the left hand is higher than the right hand which pushes Higginbotham away from the ball forcing him to have to reach back for the ball.

3. Even though Higginbotham has still not got the ball the rear lifter (Simmons) has already turned his body outwards to bring Higginbotham down on the Reds side of the lineout. Whilst this is good technique once the jumper is coming down, by making this movement before Higginbotham has the ball, Simmons moves him away from the ball and forces him to have to reach back for the ball.

Whilst the lifters and jumpers must work together, in this case they didn't and a good jump was impaired by a poor lift.

See where the ball is? It has already traveled a distance so what we see in that picture is not where the orignal line was when both set of players stood up straight when the formed the line out. That ball looks straight its just the NSW positioning and technique that look a bit strange there.

The referee should not allow a team to be more than half a metre away. If the team throwing in is more than half a metre from the line of touch then the thrower has the unfair advantage of throwing to his player on an angle which helps the jumper and makes contesting almost impossibly hard for the opposition.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Scott, many thanks for the clarification and extension of your argument. This has turned into a quite fascinating thread for those of us for whom too much analysis is never enough. In particular the video which you assembled with the action slowed down is very illuminating. It enables us to focus on the concerns of members that in the lineout shown the throw was not straight:

Certainly the one where Higgers went down and Mumm was penalised the ball went straight down the Reds line of jumpers, ie not straight.

Taking the Higgenbottom one as an example, his torso ends up behind his two pillars (and all three of them where in a horizontal line as the ball is released, and the pillars haven't moved at all) and then it appears as though he is reaching towards the tahs to catch the ball. It gives the appears of the throw being straight even though its crooked as buggery.

Mumm barely touched Higgers, Hawko is right in that the throw wasn't straight so Mumm had to move right over to the Reds side to compete.

Law 19.6 states: "The ball must be thrown straight, so that it travels at least 5 metres along the line of touch before it first touches the ground or touches or is touched by a player." The line of touch is defined as "an imaginary line in the field of play at right angles to the touchline through the place where the ball is thrown in."

Looking at the image provided by Scott we can see that the Reds hooker is leaning to the left. Extrapolating the position of his feet we can see that the ball is almost directly above, and therefore has not deviated to any appreciable extent from the line of touch. In my opinion it is clearly a legal throw.

Moving on:

Why is it so hard for the assistant standing right in line with the thrower to immediately call "not straight" unless the ball goes dead-centre down the middle. It would stop all the nonsense we get now dead in its tracks.

I think this is an excellent suggestion, Hawko. The reason why it is excessively unlikely to be implemented is its logicality and simplicity. In default of the assistant (linesman) doing so, back in my playing days I used to perform a similar service for referees. As soon as an opposition throw wandered off line I would roar, "We'll have a scrum. sir." Some of the refs were astute or naïve enough to accept my judgement. I did not bother to adjudicate on our own throws, reasoning that it was none of my business.