Let's look at potential Wallaby coaches

[Biffo]

Back in May I posted a list of coaches who might succeed Deans after 2011. There was quite some discussion. Gee, the situation has changed in a few short months. I have revised my lists.

List A: Candidates whose stars have risen in the last six months:

1. Andy Friend
2. Michael Cheika

List B: Candidates whose stars have fallen:

1. Chris Hickey
2. Steve Meehan (transferred from list A)
3. Jim Williams (transferred from list C)
4. Ewen McKenzie (transferred from list C)
5. David Nucifora (transferred from list C)

List C: Candidates whose stars have not moved:

1. Pat Howard
2. Michael Foley
3. Les Kiss

List D: Watch

1. Brian Melrose
2. Bill Millard
3. Phil Blake

List E: Deleted from contention:

1. John Mitchell
2. Phil Mooney (transferred from list B)
3. Todd Blackadder (transferred from list A)

 

[fatprop]

How has Friend got better?

The Brumbies were worse than a "shit" Tahs side

 

[Biffo]

How has Friend got better?

The Brumbies were worse than a "shit" Tahs side

Brumbies played pretty well in their last four or five games. Perhaps re-classify him to "no change"?

 

[Spook]

How has Friend got better?

The Brumbies were worse than a "shit" Tahs side

Nah, Brumbies smacked Tahs remember?

Seriously though Friend got the forwards on the right track IMO. The scrum, etc, got a hell of a lot than it was under Gandalf. The Tahs were worse than their previous season. Brumbies better than their previous.

 

[louie]

How has Friend got better?

The Brumbies were worse than a "shit" Tahs side

you mean the shit side that got canned in march? pft good call.

 

[fatprop]

Yep that shit side that came 4th, missing out on 4th by percentages, which is still a "could do better".


Seriously how the hell can someone be held up as doing anything better than average in moving a side from 9th to 7th

 

[louie]

you went from 2nd to 5th. You got worse.
you didn't come 4th you came 5th. You lost out on a semi final spot because you were the most boring team in the comp.
you were less then a better then we (three points) were and had a much better draw. Plus you didn't have a player die.
you walk around like your kings of Australian Rugby but you've never won a comp. You've the final Twice. Big deal. you and your history are shit.
and you lost to us. and got lucky to the reds. who we canned.

 

[Spook]

Yep that shit side that came 4th, missing out on 4th by percentages, which is still a "could do better".


Seriously how the hell can someone be held up as doing anything better than average in moving a side from 9th to 7th

For the record, the Tahs got 3 more competition points that the Brumbies and won 1 more game. That is not much better than the Brumbies and differences like this can often but attributed to the bounce of the ball. The Waratahs came 5th and not 4th by the way. The Brumbies could have been 6th but for percentages. Furthermore, the Brumbies beat teams which the Tahs couldn't handle like the Bulls/Crusaders (and vice versa).

Anyway, this thread is about Friend lifting the Brumbies performance. Which he did. If you are suggesting Hickey is the better coach just come out and state that. What can't be disputed is that the Tahs were not as good as they were in 08.

Let's also not forget Shawn MacKay (RIP). Friend was given much credit for keeping the side together after this incident.

 

[Spook]

you went from 2nd to 5th. You got worse.
you didn't come 4th you came 5th. You lost out on a semi final spot because you were the most boring team in the comp.
you were less then a better then we (three points) were and had a much better draw. Plus you didn't have a player die.
you walk around like your kings of Australian Rugby but you've never won a comp. You've the final Twice. Big deal. you and your history are shit.
and you lost to us. and got lucky to the reds. who we canned.

Steady on Louie, you are playing into his hands.

 

[fatprop]

Yep the Tahs had a bad season and dropped places to 5th, I am not trying to dispute that, so barbs about "boring rugby" just make me laugh as does still living vicariously through the exploits of 2004.

I still fail to see how coming 7th demonstrates a coach who is doing well. To me the Brumbies were the same as they have been since 2005.

 

[Scarfman]

Not enjoying the provincialism when it becomes insults. OK?

The odd thing about judging coaches is that we have very few resources for doing so. For example, did the team do better or worse? Was that due to other factors?

For myself, I really like my coach to say sensible / incisive things at the press conference. When they say consistently crazy things (Jones, Williams, deVilliers) it worries me a lot. On that score, Friend easily outpointed Hickey, who seemed to be pretty unsure of what was happening or needed to happen.

 

[fatprop]

It wasn't meant to be particularly provincial to begin with, I really don't think any of the S14 coaches did much this season, they all failed to make the semis or make any marked improvement.

If anything the only two coaches that did some decent work in any of the franchises was Foley and Melon, who got their pigs better.

 

[Scarfman]

My comment was directed at everyone.

But when you talk about the Brumbies forwards getting better, how do we know who to thank for that? Friend, Melon, Smith, the recruitment of Moore?

 

[fatprop]

My comment was directed at everyone.

But when you talk about the Brumbies forwards getting better, how do we know who to thank for that? Friend, Melon, Smith, the recruitment of Moore?

Friend is/was a back ........................................................

 

[Scotty]

And Melon was one of the laziest Wallaby forwards of the last 20 years.

 

[Biffo]

My comment was directed at everyone.

But when you talk about the Brumbies forwards getting better, how do we know who to thank for that? Friend, Melon, Smith, the recruitment of Moore?

Friend is/was a back ........................................................

I have previously posted on this forum that the hallmarks of Friend-coached teams have been precision at the set piece and cohesive attack and defence by the forwards. Whether he coaches those aspects or hires and supervises someone with expertise to do it is absolutely irrelevant. Totally relevant is that he sees those aspects as the foundation for success and ensures that the forwards are directed to achieving what he wants. Friend went a long way in that direction with the Brumbies last S14 - that should be acknowledged.

Remember the priceless discussion between Friend and Chisholm? Something like:

Friend: How do you like to play your game, Chiz?
Chisholm; I like to have a run with the ball.
Friend: Well, I'd like you to hit a few rucks.

Friend got the result.

On the oft-claimed that backs can't coach forwards, would anyone seriously say that Woodward was not responsible for the development of England's mighty 2000-03 pack?

 

[Red Beard]

What is the general feeling now throughout the Aussie rugby community regarding the performance of Robbie Deans since he jumped ship? Are you guys still happy with him being the head honcho now he has had two seasons in charge? Should he be the Wallaby coach through to 2011? What is he doing well or badly? Sure your scrum has shored up, but is that really down to Deans or rather your scrum coach and the ongoing physical development of your tight forwards?

 

[Aussie D]

What is the general feeling now throughout the Aussie rugby community regarding the performance of Robbie Deans since he jumped ship? Are you guys still happy with him being the head honcho now he has had two seasons in charge? Should he be the Wallaby coach through to 2011? What is he doing well or badly? Sure your scrum has shored up, but is that really down to Deans or rather your scrum coach and the ongoing physical development of your tight forwards?

A lot of fans are bleaming Deans (that sounds familiar :nta but some of the spotlight has turned on his support staff and their performance. A worrying thing has happened though in the CEO has come out in support of Deans - never a good sign in Oz sport as it is usually followed by the axe. I still blame the players, ARU, RUPA and the old farts network for the ills in Oz rugby. My club is on the verge of folding and I blame the ARU and NSWRU for all their infighting and neglect of grassroots rugby for most of our woes (some were self inflicted by previous boards not having the balls to stand up to the players and the first grade coaching staff walking out in the week prior to the first game this year).

 

[Red Beard]

What is the general feeling now throughout the Aussie rugby community regarding the performance of Robbie Deans since he jumped ship? Are you guys still happy with him being the head honcho now he has had two seasons in charge? Should he be the Wallaby coach through to 2011? What is he doing well or badly? Sure your scrum has shored up, but is that really down to Deans or rather your scrum coach and the ongoing physical development of your tight forwards?

A lot of fans are bleaming Deans (that sounds familiar :nta but some of the spotlight has turned on his support staff and their performance. A worrying thing has happened though in the CEO has come out in support of Deans - never a good sign in Oz sport as it is usually followed by the axe. I still blame the players, ARU, RUPA and the old farts network for the ills in Oz rugby. My club is on the verge of folding and I blame the ARU and NSWRU for all their infighting and neglect of grassroots rugby for most of our woes (some were self inflicted by previous boards not having the balls to stand up to the players and the first grade coaching staff walking out in the week prior to the first game this year).

Mate exactly the samething is going on here. While the NZRU are boasting amateur playing numbers are up, I just dont buy it myself. Rugby maybe growing in the five S14 bases (although the standard of premier Waikato club rugby is at an all time low), but the game is in terrible shape in the rural 'Heartland' areas. I live in a town POP 4000 which in 1996 used to have two clubs comprising of four senior teams, two U21, two U19 sides and a high school with seven sides. Today the U21 and U19 sides have gone completely and the school that has produced three recent All Blacks has only two sides and no 1st XV for its senior pupils.

IMO (and it maybe a simplistic view), the professional game look after itself but if the game dies at grassroots level and we erode the base, (which was once the strength of the NZ game), we do so at our own peril. The NZRU should be doing everything it can to grow tyhe game again at amatuer level and not restrict the elite of the game to the major centres.

 

[fatprop]

To me, Deans is trying to get the Aus side to play more like a Kiwi side.

A bit more lateral, with more reliance on one on one talent to beat a man or pace on the outside to go around them.

To me it makes sense from turnover, but we are getting bogged down in phase play as we are used to much more structure in attack.

The positives, he has got the backs working much harder off the ball and or set piece has improved at scrum time and our lineout is surviving without a poacher.

The negatives, he also attempts to not commit too many units to the ruck, fine until you meet a rabid ABs or Boks prepared to hurl men there.

It is interesting that he is doing the same type of stuff that he did with the ABs with Mitchell and getting rid of the "oldies", we will see how that finishes up.