Lack of Crowds in NZ

[Gnostic]

What is going on in Kiwi land? Last night's game against the Blues would have to be the lowest crowd I have seen for a finals game. Accentuated sure by the big stadium but this is supposed to be the southern spiritual home of Rugby. I would be happy to blame the cold and fairly crappy conditions but the crowds have seemed to me to be pretty underwhelming this year for the most part across the ditch. Add to this the reports of worryingly low interest in RWC tickets at this early stage and I have to ask the question, are NZers just not interested anymore? Or is the economic situation hitting disposable incomes hard in NZ?

 

[qwerty51]

The worrying thing is which excuses won't cover is that I've seen some Warriors games this year and the crowd is generally very good. I believe a game in Christchurch vs Parramatta got 38k. It seems to be just Union. However these Warriors games are during the afternoon which could be a big factor. I don't see why we can't have more day games. Is it just because of the South Africans?

Saturday or Sunday arvo footy would increase crowds all across NZ and Aus.

 

[Gnostic]

I would love some arvo games. I used to love the Saturday Afternoon test matches, played in the sun in good conditions then off to the boozer for a counter dinner and a few ales and tales.

 

[Redsben]

Couldn't help myself. Read these comments and thought WTF? Try and get a RWC ticket anywere in NZ and come back and tell me this....btw Hi!

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I think it has a lot to do with the TV deal. Evening games in NZ are better time wise for the UK and European audiences.

 

[antipodean]

The worrying thing is which excuses won't cover is that I've seen some Warriors games this year and the crowd is generally very good. I believe a game in Christchurch vs Parramatta got 38k.

That was the season opener, held in the well known Christchurch ground called Eden Park. Their crowds are back to ~11,500.

New Zealanders are probably sick and tired of sitting in the cold and wet so some tosser on the other side of the planet can watch the game without being inconvenienced.

 

[qwerty51]

That was the season opener, held in the well known Christchurch ground called Eden Park. Their crowds are back to ~11,500.

New Zealanders are probably sick and tired of sitting in the cold and wet so some tosser on the other side of the planet can watch the game without being inconvenienced.

Yep, was suppose to be in Christchurch right? Still a very good ground for a league game. So you reckon the crowds would vastly improve with arvo games? I wouldn't disagree at all. Bit of a disgrace we're held ransom to people on the other side of the world as you say.

 

[Sandpit Fan]

That was the season opener, held in the well known Christchurch ground called Eden Park. Their crowds are back to ~11,500.

New Zealanders are probably sick and tired of sitting in the cold and wet so some tosser on the other side of the planet can watch the game without being inconvenienced.

Yeah, got to say given the choice of sitting at home or in the pub in warmth, with drinks etc on hand, or sitting in a stadium on a winters evening in NZ, it's not that much of a surprise there are not many at the grounds. Arvo games would have to be better for all concerned (except Fox broadcasting).

 

[kiap]

I think it has a lot to do with the TV deal. Evening games in NZ are better time wise for the UK and European audiences.

Moreover (East-coast) Australian audiences. Anything before 7:30 pm NZT will struggle for Australian viewers (5:30 pm AEST), especially on a Friday night, but even on a Saturday.

A few 3:30 pm Sat/Sun games are probably a good idea although these work better in Australia than New Zealand from the TV point of view (converts to the other country as 1:30 pm in Aus vs 5:30 pm in NZ).

 

[RuckinGoodStats]

Saturday or Sunday arvo footy would increase crowds all across NZ and Aus.

Might do, but people have got used to night rugby. Also the TV rights for South Africa means the time slot.

Basically the feeling is the match in september/october is what people are holding out for.

 

[Bon]

It will be interesting to see if numbers attending increase in Dunedin. The new all weather stadium should make a difference. We have so many crap grounds over here,ie dual purpose rugby/cricket grounds where as well as freezing your arse off and getting rained on the play is so far away. Many say,and I agree,you get to see more on tv. Turn the sound off on the Fox commentators,turn the radio commentary on,throw a log on the fire. It's called voting with your feet I think.

 

[emuarse]

I suspect that the RWC coming to the Shaky Isles being only months away is causing frugal Kiwis to reserve their funding for that time. They would have bought tickets recently and said 'that's it bro, no more change'.

 

[Tangawizi]

Couldn't help myself. Read these comments and thought WTF? Try and get a RWC ticket anywere in NZ and come back and tell me this....btw Hi!

It's been pretty easy to pick up RWC tickets to all games except those involving the AB's actually. Including the semis and final if you were prepared to pay the $$ and got on the internet at the right time.

General public sale starts again next week - if you want tickets just be online at 7am (AEDT) next Monday and Tuesday mornings.

 

[Set piece magic]

It's a combination of several things, I have been wondering long about this.

Expedential effect: A stadium is warm when it's full. They know it's not going to be very full, thus they don't go. If it was more full they would.

The Blues: People in Auckland are like some people about the Wallabies, think they're team is terribly inconsistant, can't do x, is hopeless, when in reality the team is very good.

TV audiences: This is a big one, take a look at the fixture list on superxv.com, then look at UK broadcast times, and give me one time that is at a ridiculous hour. You probably can't. I'm guessing Super Rugby has a big following there...

They NEED to put afternoon games in. It's simply too cold and too wet not to do so. They are just afraid of doing so because it will mean the games kick off ~4am UK time, the worst possible hour. I say fuck that and let NZ have some crowds!

economic situation isn't too good, with RWC this year a lot would have bought tickets to that and nothing else.

Perhaps this RWC will be about high quality games and TV audiences instead of the massive crowds and shit games there was in France.

Here's hoping it all comes togethor in England 2015 where there is a ridiculous number of massive stadiums that should all be filled with some great running rugby.

 

[#1 Tah]

seems that PdV's plan of letting the Blecks win didnt help :fishing

 

[ChargerWA]

I think Ali's Choice mentioned a while back that the crowds never recovered after Henry rested the ABs before RWC2007. People stopped going as they weren't going to watch 2nd string outfits, meanwhile discovering that sitting in the warmth with no lines for brews was better and they simply got out of the habit of going to the rugby.

 

[TOCC]

Im a little bit perplexed as to why people are laying so much blame at the feet of European Broadcasters as to being the reason why we dont get afternoon games. SANZAR does indeed have a office in Europer for the specific reason of on-selling SuperRugby and TriNations broadcast rights, however the European contribution to the overall broadcast income represent less then 5%(2008 figures) of what the SH networks are paying.

Super Rugby broadcast times are driven by the SH networks, as it has always been. Afternoon games are always going to be a hard sell to the networks because they on average rate lower then prime time (7:30pm) matches, regardless of the fact that it may be more appealing to the spectators.

The only timeslot attractive to afternoon broadcasts are Australian Sunday afternoons(AUS 1530, NZ 1730, RSA 0730) and South African Saturdays , New Zealand afternoon broadcasts(Sat,Sun) arent so appealing because it would make the timeslot far to early in Australia and South Africa(NZ, 1530, AUS 1330, RSA 0530) . Afternoon games on a Saturday in Australian dont appeal becasue its likely to conflict with New Zealand 1730/1930 game timeslots.

 

[Tangawizi]

There's an interesting article on Eden Park in the NZ Herald today. I does sort of tone down my excitement levels a touch about being there in September.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10734566

Eden Park will let down NZ

World Cup boss Martin Snedden is confident the world will be surprised by Eden Park. He's right, they will be; surprised at just how awful it is; surprised that even some who have forked out $460 run the risk of being drenched.

Eden Park will be the worst stadium to host a World Cup final since ... Eden Park hosted the 1987 final.

All that bickering in 2006 whether to build at the waterfront or Eden Park was shameful enough back then. But it is only now that the true horror of that failure is becoming apparent.

At the cost of $240 million, New Zealand has built an utter dog of a stadium and one that will taint the World Cup.

What will it say about New Zealand when the thousands of overseas fans arrive at the stadium to be greeted by a phalanx of scaffolding hurriedly put up at the back of the east and west ends? How could anyone be impressed by this atrocity; this failure to realise that the world expects more.

In 1999, Wales built the magnificent Millennium Stadium to host the final - a genuine marvel with a sliding roof. Admittedly built for the Olympics, Australia used Telstra Stadium to host the 2003 event.

The theatre is up there with the best. Stade de France in Paris hosted in 2007. Typically French, it left a sense of awe.

Now it's Eden Park's turn - which is a bit like asking an 18-handicapper to tee off after Tiger Woods. Uncovered seats are a massive no-no at World Cups because people really don't like the idea of enduring rather than enjoying.

Even those who have gone the extra distance to pay for covered seats might find they have been sold a pup. When the Blues played the Highlanders a couple of weeks ago, there was no escaping the rain even for those backed up to the overhang of the bottom tier of the new South Stand.

What should be worrying World Cup officials is this: the massive drop-off in sales the Blues experienced the week after the Highlanders game. The first playoff at Eden Park in eight years and only 16,000 came to see it.

Why? There may be more than one reason but among them is the fact that so many loyal fans were soaked and chilled the previous week; given a stark reminder that Eden Park, even with $240m of investment, has the appeal of a Siberian salt mine.

World Cup organisers better pray it doesn't rain during the pool rounds. Commitments have been made and money collected for those games but how many visitors will be keen to buy knockout round tickets once they have seen Eden Park in its imperfect and in no way endearing reality?

The big picture just hasn't been grasped and New Zealand could pay a massive price for its slavery to the broadcast dollar these last 15 years. The armchair fan has been the only concern in the professional age - every game is televised and every competition structured so no one needs to go to the trouble of actually going to the ground.

Yet the success of the World Cup is totally dependent on persuading people to come to the stadium. Ticket revenue is the only revenue for New Zealand and stands with no roofs and inclement weather make a disturbing combination.

The overseas market will arrive with higher expectations because the competitions over there are still all about the stadium experience. TV is not the God of Everything in the UK, Ireland and France.

Eden Park now has a concourse, more catering facilities, better technology and wider access gates - but to celebrate that too much is to make the same mistake of overly praising the perennially naughty child for making it through the day without incident.

The organisers are excited that Eden Park has now reached the most basic benchmark. But previous World Cup stadia have seen that as a minimum - the trick is to provide some wow factor; to create a visionary piece of engineering and architecture that says something about the pride and ingenuity of the host nation.

Scaffolding that looks like it could fall down; thousands of uncovered and temporary seats and a field that is a hybrid for cricket and rugby - that's what awaits the world and goodness only knows what impression of New Zealand they will draw from that.

Rugby World Cup boss Martin Snedden declined to comment this week but will write a column in response next Sunday. The Eden Park Trust Board chairman could not be reached but a spokesman said comment was unlikely.

By Gregor Paul | Email Gregor

 

[Scarfman]

I remember thinking at the time that they won the RWC hosting, that this would be NZ's last chance to host it by themselves. The tournament would just get to big for their population and economy.

Crowds have been down all year - the conference system not working for NZers?

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

TOCC, I'm surprised that the European figures are so low, given that News Ltd has substantial assets over there in the form of Sky.

Tangawizi, you're right about it knocking some of the shine off the Eden Park games. I'm signed up for all the pool matches there and here I was thinking that in a newly renovated stadium it would be sweet. Perhaps not, but I'm not going to let that ruin the fun. I'll just make sure I'm rugged up prepared for an Arctic expedition Night games must be miserable experiences for a lot of Kiwi fans and I guess I'm about to find out why.

Scarfy, I too had the same thought. If they host again, it will be with Australia surely.