Ireland v Wallabies - Sunday 1 Dec, 2:10 AEDT

[Tomthumb]

Re Tate McDermott.
There are two recent rule changes that make play from behind a scrum or ruck/maul much more difficult forthe halfback:
a) the referees down his throat with the five second rule. This gives the half very little time to make a decision as to box kicking it (and hard/soft the kick), passing it, or running it.
b) that player's on your team can no longer obstruct an opposing (loose) forward aiming to take out the halfback.
So Tomthumb, (by your name, I assume you were a halfback in a subdivision team); think some more before you critise

These rules are the same for every player though, so I don't really get your point

 

[Brumby Runner]

I guess it's not a productive point though because he must fit the idea Schmidt has for the type of play he wants. Tate and Gordon are by far the best attacking 9s and he has shown a preference to them. I trust the coaches do work with them on skills, and it might be a reality check to come against teams like Ireland which put more pressure on you that you need to do more...

If he wanted a dummy half with a good pass then Lonergan would be an option but he doesn't seem to be on the radar.

This looks to be so, but I wonder just how much the rest of our backline would benefit with a dummy half style of play at least for part of the game.

 

[emuarse]

These rules are the same for every player though, so I don't really get your point

The point is that the halfback has a lot more decisions to make in a shorter period of time. This was also reflected in Jake's game as well.
Refs were a bit loose with their clearance times for the halves prior to the 5 second rule. They have really stepped up on this recently.

 

[Tomthumb]

The point is that the halfback has a lot more decisions to make in a shorter period of time. This was also reflected in Jake's game as well.
Refs were a bit loose with their clearance times for the halves prior to the 5 second rule. They have really stepped up on this recently.

Tate's pass and kick are demonstrably worse than his contemporaries though, regardless of the rules

 

[JRugby2]

The point is that the halfback has a lot more decisions to make in a shorter period of time. This was also reflected in Jake's game as well.
Refs were a bit loose with their clearance times for the halves prior to the 5 second rule. They have really stepped up on this recently.

They really haven't - time is pretty obviously correlated with how much pressure is applied by the opposition, not the referee.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

This looks to be so, but I wonder just how much the rest of our backline would benefit with a dummy half style of play at least for part of the game.

I personally don't think they would as it allows an opposition to put more pressure on 10 and push the Centres laterally.

Gordon and Tate can hold the close defenders just that bit longer because you can't give them the opening. Lets the ball get to guys like Ikitau, Wright & JAS with a bit more free space.

I like Lonergan and think he's a deserving starter at Super Rugby, but he has a few guys ahead of him that offer an extra point of difference/threat at Test level.

 

[LeCheese]

If he wanted a dummy half with a good pass then Lonergan would be an option but he doesn't seem to be on the radar.

He's very clearly on the radar given he was captain and starting 9 v England A - from what's been said, I'm not sure that game did much to help his cause, however.

 

[Pfitzy]

Fuck me, it's such a tiring and frankly absurd rhetoric.

You're new here?

 

[Derpus]

Tate isn't a professional as he clearly doesn't practice his passing.
Noah isn't a professional as he clearly doesn't practice his kicks to touch.
Harry Wilson isn't a professional as he clearly doesn't practice his leg drive through contact.
[Insert hooker here] isn't a professional as he clearly doesn't practice his lineout throwing.
........

Fuck me, it's such a tiring and frankly absurd rhetoric.

Nothing better than 'back in my day' brain damaged rhetoric from alcoholic boomers to drive constructive dialogue.

 

[Dctarget]

Nothing better than 'back in my day' brain damaged rhetoric from alcoholic boomers to drive constructive dialogue.

I did receive this from a mate the other day

 

[A mutterer]

I think all our 9s have looked worse with the accelerated timeframe for clearing the ball; where they had ages to fuck around behind the caterpillar, now they don't. Tate has probably been impacted the most.
I can't really see why Gordon's box-kicking went from the level of the Wales Test (very good distance and accuracy wise) to what we saw last weekend, although the increased pressure on the breakdown from Ireland (urgency and egregious lolly-gagging where they shouldn't) was probably a big factor. Kudos to Ireland.
As stated by someone earlier, better quality ball more on the front foot works wonders.
Longer term I think McDermott has the most upside of those in the squad now (if they can tidy up his passing options and delivery) ; others outside it will have chances...

Our break down work against Scotland and Ireland fell off. Irish noticed Scotland's efforts and added some of their own.

Gordon was coming back from a bad head clash with a significant wound, bound to have gotten into his head (yes yes pun, but look at tsuzyus last fight). Ball was messy and slowed down so we had less lqb. Wasn't his best showing, but he lifted his base across this season.

Tate OTOH? His passing has been a known deficiency for the last couple of seasons. I'm not sure if there is a higher ceiling otherwise 2 off-seasons of practice would surely have seen some improvement?

We have 2 good half-backs with different core strengths that give some tactical flexibility. Hopefully one of the younger half's put their hands up in soup to put some serious pressure and competition so they both do the johnny wilkinsonesque additional core skills training foe hours on end.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

He's very clearly on the radar given he was captain and starting 9 v England A - from what's been said, I'm not sure that game did much to help his cause, however.

Valid point that he was Captain but I'm not really sure how much those games meant for a lot of the players. It kept some guys available for the Wallabies and then the team had to be filled out. Nobody was retained for Ireland that was out of the blue...

I'm not trying to dismiss him as a 9. Start of last year I thought he could have been a front runner for the Wallabies job when White left the Brums but I'm just doing my attempt at reading the tea leaves and selections so far this year even following a strong Brumbies season.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Our break down work against Scotland and Ireland fell off. Irish noticed Scotland's efforts and added some of their own.

Gordon was coming back from a bad head clash with a significant wound, bound to have gotten into his head (yes yes pun, but look at tsuzyus last fight). Ball was messy and slowed down so we had less lqb. Wasn't his best showing, but he lifted his base across this season.

Tate OTOH? His passing has been a known deficiency for the last couple of seasons. I'm not sure if there is a higher ceiling otherwise 2 off-seasons of practice would surely have seen some improvement?

WR (World Rugby) (World Rugby) have 2 good half-backs with different core strengths that give some tactical flexibility. Hopefully one of the younger half's put their hands up in soup to put some serious pressure and competition so they both do the johnny wilkinsonesque additional core skills training foe hours on end.

I think Tate will have a very good Super Rugby season and put huge pressure to get the starting spot because the Reds will have the best pack of the Australian sides and he will get to play off that.

He also thrives in close gaps and we saw the interplay of quick hands between McReight & Wilson last year which was brilliant. No 9 thrives if the piggies aren't on top.

 

[JRugby2]

I think Tate will have a very good Super Rugby season and put huge pressure to get the starting spot because the Reds will have the best pack of the Australian sides and he will get to play off that.

He also thrives in close gaps and we saw the interplay of quick hands between McReight & Wilson last year which was brilliant. No 9 thrives if the piggies aren't on top.

As evidenced by topping wallabies Try Assist stats for 2025

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

All the points on him have been accurate re passing but the juice is worth the squeeze. Besides Noah having to do his best slips fielder impression at times, his and Gordon's threat of running does give Noah more time which he needs. He's never going to shred an attack on his own at Test level and bust through holes.

If an opposition back row have to hold for just an extra second to watch Tate it opens up so much more field for the Backs to play on the front foot.

 

[Sully]

I don't care if his pass isn't as good as others, I'd pick him before any other half in Australia because of his game pace.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I think Tate will have a very good Super Rugby season and put huge pressure to get the starting spot because the Reds will have the best pack of the Australian sides and he will get to play off that.

He also thrives in close gaps and we saw the interplay of quick hands between McReight & Wilson last year which was brilliant. No 9 thrives if the piggies aren't on top.

Hmmm. Tahs will have the strongest starting front row with Bell, Porecki and Tupou.

Brumbies have a strong second row with Frost, Neville and Hooper probably just shading Smith, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) and Blyth/Canham.

Not much between Reds and Brumbies backrow with Uru, McReight and Wilson pretty much on par with Valetini, Reimer and Cale.

Bench spots will play a big part. Tahs not so strong in the front row off the bench while Reds and Brumbies will be able to call upon international props and hookers as backup. Brumbies a bit light on in the backrow backups with Scott and Lachie Hooper pretty much it. Reds can bring in the like of Brial and Bryant on the bench. Given the dispersion of quality forwards across the teams, I think there will be quite a few hard fought contests up front next year.

 

[JRugby2]

Hmmm. Tahs will have the strongest starting front row with Bell, Porecki and Tupou.

Brumbies have a strong second row with Frost, Neville and Hooper probably just shading Smith, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) and Blyth/Canham.

Not much between Reds and Brumbies backrow with Uru, McReight and Wilson pretty much on par with Valetini, Reimer and Cale.

Bench spots will play a big part. Tahs not so strong in the front row off the bench while Reds and Brumbies will be able to call upon international props and hookers as backup. Brumbies a bit light on in the backrow backups with Scott and Lachie Hooper pretty much it. Reds can bring in the like of Brial and Bryant on the bench. Given the dispersion of quality forwards across the teams, I think there will be quite a few hard fought contests up front next year.

Probably a chat for SPR 2025 but yeah, won't be much between the sides next year. Force definitely the little brother on paper of the Australian packs

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I knew that would get a reply from the ACT faithful and you're points are good. I just think the depth the Reds have through the squad of Forwards give them the edge. Hodgman, Gibbon, JTA really fill out the depth chart.

Probably a chat for SPR 2025 but yeah, won't be much between the sides next year. Force definitely the little brother on paper of the Australian packs

Your'e right.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Every thread gets inadvertently hijacked. See, eg, the Wallabies 25 thread that now has pages devoted to NFL FFS.