Hometown Refs

[Brumby Runner]

Seconds should not be reffing at this level. He is absolutely woeful.

So much for SAZAAR's much hyped meritocracy. A few others are probably not far advanced on Egon.

 

[Dan54]

Owens is a home ref for the ABs.

I meant for internationals you’d have some adjustment made on the basis of the historical performance under a certain ref (not dependent on home/away). Anyway, kind of getting off the beaten track here but I’d be interested to know if the bookies do adjust based on referee because that would be suggestive.

That is exactly the kind of remark that is the reason noone with much sense takes notice of what is posted on forums!
Who are the home refs for the Wallabies, or are you one of the one who claims that the Wallabies are always hard done by?

 

[Up the Guts]

That is exactly the kind of remark that is the reason noone with much sense takes notice of what is posted on forums!
Who are the home refs for the Wallabies, or are you one of the one who claims that the Wallabies are always hard done by?

It was a joke, can you really expect not to see a light-hearted jibe at NZ’s expense on an Aus rugby forum? In any case, Ireland were whinging about having Owens against the ABs in the quarters last year so it’s not a Wallaby only phenomenon. Interestingly, a lot of people seem to be taking the stats posted on this forum quite seriously.

 

[qwerty51]

That is exactly the kind of remark that is the reason noone with much sense takes notice of what is posted on forums!
Who are the home refs for the Wallabies, or are you one of the one who claims that the Wallabies are always hard done by?

Wayne Barnes is usually pretty kind to us. If people don't think some refs are suited to some teams you're very naive about rugby.

 

[Dan54]

It was a joke, can you really expect not to see a light-hearted jibe at NZ’s expense on an Aus rugby forum? In any case, Ireland were whinging about having Owens against the ABs in the quarters last year so it’s not a Wallaby only phenomenon. Interestingly, a lot of people seem to be taking the stats posted on this forum quite seriously.

Ok sorry UTG, just I was taking most of the posts seriously and thought us starting to pick out certain refs in tests etc was not helping argument. I still get pissed off with AB any supporters including my own AB supporters that point at refs in tests and allude that they favour one team over another, when it really an excuse for their team losing.
I take qwerty's point, but think all refs have some things they watch for, so different teams may seem to have an advantage, but it more cases than not, very good players/coaches know what top refs look for.

 

[The Nomad]

It was a joke, can you really expect not to see a light-hearted jibe at NZ’s expense on an Aus rugby forum? In any case, Ireland were whinging about having Owens against the ABs in the quarters last year so it’s not a Wallaby only phenomenon. Interestingly, a lot of people seem to be taking the stats posted on this forum quite seriously.

Was at a rugby dinner a couple of years ago before an international game in Brisbane that Nigel Owens and Wayne Barnes amongst others spoke at .

Nigel opened up about his difficulties coming out as a gay man in conservative Wales and how rugby saved him from a downward spiral.

Wayne then got up and gave Nigel a hard time about his not so secret crush on Dan Carter and told a story about the 2015 RWC when the AB’s were playing Georgia, Wayne was the ref and Nigel the extra sideline official . Nigel was joking about how great it would be if Dan Carter got a yellow card so he would have to sit with him in the naughty chair . Wayne sent Owen Franks off instead .

They are human and even have a sense of humour!

 

[Forcefield]

Wayne Barnes is usually pretty kind to us. If people don't think some refs are suited to some teams you're very naive about rugby.

Yes. I have a feeling we are 9 and 1 with Barnes where our average win rate in that time is about 50-50.

 

[Ignoto]

They are human and even have a sense of humour!

Yet Jayco got destroyed for this!

 

[Up the Guts]

Ok sorry UTG, just I was taking most of the posts seriously and thought us starting to pick out certain refs in tests etc was not helping argument. I still get pissed off with AB any supporters including my own AB supporters that point at refs in tests and allude that they favour one team over another, when it really an excuse for their team losing.
I take qwerty's point, but think all refs have some things they watch for, so different teams may seem to have an advantage, but it more cases than not, very good players/coaches know what top refs look for.

All good mate, respect that you are consistent with your general siding with the ref even if it’s the ABs on the receiving end.

 

[Dan54]

Well I think anyone who watched the Clan/Rebel's game last night would have to say that perhaps hometown refs aren't really the problem, as I certainly saw no advantage to either team. Maybe it is competence that is the problem?

 

[Dctarget]

Well I think anyone who watched the Clan/Rebel's game last night would have to say that perhaps hometown refs aren't really the problem, as I certainly saw no advantage to either team. Maybe it is competence that is the problem?

Hometown refs in South Africa That's the problem.

 

[Rebels3]

Well I think anyone who watched the Clan/Rebel's game last night would have to say that perhaps hometown refs aren't really the problem, as I certainly saw no advantage to either team. Maybe it is competence that is the problem?

Not one person has claimed there is a problem coming from NZ or Aus. The statistics clearly show that as well. As stated above the issue is SA refs in SA. There is a massive disparity between the stats produced when they are reffed by a SA ref to a neutral.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Just watched the mini-replay of the Rebels game and I reckon I saw 7 penalty advantages to the hurricanes not awarded (the rebs kept infringing in the lead up to tries, or foul play reversed advantages etc) in the 10 or so minutes of highlights alone.

No real point other than the penalty count doesn't really always tell the whole picture

 

[yourmatesam]

Just watched the mini-replay of the Rebels game and I reckon I saw 7 penalty advantages to the hurricanes not awarded (the rebs kept infringing in the lead up to tries, or foul play reversed advantages etc) in the 10 or so minutes of highlights alone.

No real point other than the penalty count doesn't really always tell the whole picture

This is a critical point for any match and particularly a referee...

There's a number of ways of looking at this. Were the advantages a result of infringements that then finished up in actual advantage? What was the referee comms like leading into those advantages? Was the referee actively managing these phases and players weren't listening/chose to act out like naughty boys?

An accrued advantage is the same as a penalty outcome in my eyes. It won't result in the same reward on the scoreboard, but it has a definite effect on the game and should ultimately shape the game.

Good referees minimise PK and Accrued Advantage because they are using these skills to change behaviour.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

This is a critical point for any match and particularly a referee.

There's a number of ways of looking at this. Were the advantages a result of infringements that then finished up in actual advantage? What was the referee comms like leading into those advantages? Was the referee actively managing these phases and players weren't listening/chose to act out like naughty boys?

An accrued advantage is the same as a penalty outcome in my eyes. It won't result in the same reward on the scoreboard, but it has a definite effect on the game and should ultimately shape the game.

Good referees minimise PK and Accrued Advantage because they are using these skills to change behaviour.

It rarely occurs but the referee really should have yellow carded a player in that instance. It is a huge bugbear of mine that when a team scores a try all is forgotten.

The call I found most interesting in that match however was the referee asking Aaron Smith if he wanted the penalty now or if he wanted to continue to play with the advantage.

 

[yourmatesam]

The call I found most interesting in that match however was the referee asking Aaron Smith if he wanted the penalty now or if he wanted to continue to play with the advantage.

I don't have a problem with this, I reckon a player would appreciate being part of the process rather than the referee just telling them that it's PK time.

It shows good empathy and minimises stoppage time.


For the record, I didn't see this game.

The theory behind not awarding a YC in those instances is that the advantage accrues by scoring the try. I agree, it frustrates the hell out of me too but referees get panned enough as it is, imagine the outcry if they started slinging mustard around in those instances.

 

[Strewthcobber]

As it turned out, the Rebels got a yellow for repeated infringements almost immediately once play was done near their try line. So the ref remembered

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

I don't have a problem with this, I reckon a player would appreciate being part of the process rather than the referee just telling them that it's PK time.

It shows good empathy and minimises stoppage time.


For the record, I didn't see this game.

The theory behind not awarding a YC in those instances is that the advantage accrues by scoring the try. I agree, it frustrates the hell out of me too but referees get panned enough as it is, imagine the outcry if they started slinging mustard around in those instances.

I understand what you are saying and maybe I am just a little more skeptical in the way Australian players/captains manage the referees compared to our NZ counterparts. There is certainly nothing in the law book to suggest that the attacking team have the option to choose nor have I seen that occur in the past.

In relation to the yellow card situation surely not scoring shouldn't be a benefit. If the attacking team had the choice of a yellow card and a 5m attacking lineout compared with 5 potentially 7 points unless they are under major time pressure most would take option 1.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

As it turned out, the Rebels got a yellow for repeated infringements almost immediately once play was done near their try line. So the ref remembered

Yeah agree he didn't forget but they did also infringe again.

 

[Brumby Runner]

This is a critical point for any match and particularly a referee.

There's a number of ways of looking at this. Were the advantages a result of infringements that then finished up in actual advantage? What was the referee comms like leading into those advantages? Was the referee actively managing these phases and players weren't listening/chose to act out like naughty boys?

An accrued advantage is the same as a penalty outcome in my eyes. It won't result in the same reward on the scoreboard, but it has a definite effect on the game and should ultimately shape the game.

Good referees minimise PK and Accrued Advantage because they are using these skills to change behaviour.

In most games, most penalty advantage situations do end up as penalties awarded. Very few advantages lead directly to a try being scored, and that seems to be the only situation in which advantage is canceled.

The issue though comes in when there is a sequence of advantages being played before an earlier advantage is nullified and penalty awarded. Overall, I don't think the number of advantage calls that go unrewarded would drastically affect the penalty counts in a match, and they generally go both ways towards whichever team is attacking in the red zone at the time.