Heineken Cup 2009/10

[Lee Grant]

The Heineken Cup is on again and the excitement of the game today is why I keep watching it. In the Super14 you can lose a game or two early on and it doesn't matter much if you can recover in the next month or so.

You can't do that in the HC. There are 6 pools and only 4 in each pool. Each team plays the other 3 teams home and away and losing a home game can be deadly to a team's chances.

Only the winners of the pool are guaranteed a finals spot but the best and second best runners up also make it through. Usually 2 of the 4 in every pool are pretty strong though sometimes there are pools of death where a 3rd team is decent too.

Winning away can be a big bonus especially against a favoured team but losing away can be just as bad if you are playing a weak team you are expected to beat. In one of the big upsets in HC history unfancied Italian club Treviso beat Perpignan at home in Round 1. For the visiting losers it was just like losing a home game because the other good team in their group, Munster, is certain to beat Treviso away when it is their turn.

In that context Perpignan had to beat Munster at Thomond Park, and being the home game against their strongest opponent in the group, it was just as important to Munster that they won.


Perpignan shocked the Thomond Park crowd, with two early tries and both from lineouts and both exploiting the gaps between the pods. The first one was ironic because Munster skipper POC had just pilfered a USAP lineout with a slap but nobody was paying attention on his side and an opponent picked the pill up to score.

It was 12-12 at oranges. It's just as well ROG had his kicking boots on. He was completely crap kicking goals last week in a Munster game I saw - against the Sprays. He missed 4 penalty kicks IIRR, including 3 easy ones.

Munster was ahead 21-18 with about 9 minutes to go and smart ass Phillip Burger from the Cheetahs fields a bomb and runs the pill up the sideline with the slowest Munster backs: ROG and Warwick, trying to catch him. They couldn't and he scored in the corner. Terrific try.

So - replacement scrummie Mele tries to convert and just misses; so Munster are behind 21-23. Then, as though it's their manifest destiny they get a well-earned penalty and ROG slots it for the home team to win 24-23.

Scoring 3 tries to 0 you'd probably say that Perpignan deserved to win but it didn't look like that because all 3 were snap tries and most of Munster's penalties that were goaled were hard earned.

Aussie Paul Warwick has been one of Munster's best this year but he didn't have a happy game. 6 Quinlan rolled back the years and did a couple of skilful things that made a difference. He'd have to be one of the best cheats in the world too, old Quinny.

USAP had some good players too. We crow about our two Oz hookers but Perpignan wouldn't swap Guirado for anybody, and the quality of scrummie Durand indicates how much depth France has in that position because he's probably rated 4 or 5. He got the ball from Guirado who made a break from the lineout and stepped Howlett like you wouldn't believe, and scored the 2nd try.

Perpignan are toast now. It's hard to see them coming back from here.

 

[Biffo]

Great report, thanks. You enjoying the EuroSport rugby coverage?

 

[Lee Grant]

The HC games were on ESPN. They have two games a week when it is on.

Eurosports has two Top14 games every week and a highlights package. That's all. Both channels show the games live and also have replays.

There are no ML, GP, or ECC games on Eurosports. Setanta has the rights in Oz, though I can't get it where I live. My son gets Setanta and he records a lot of games for me - including 6N, as Setanta has rights to those games in Oz also.

 

[Lee Grant]

Ulster 23 Stade Français 13

I saw SF beat Ulster away easily last year but a bit of rugby water has gone under the bridge since then and SF couldn't even get a bonus point loss at Ravehill today.

There were only 3 tries in the game but all of them were cracking team tries from way back. It gives a bit of ammunition to those who say there is nothing wrong with the laws as they are if such tries are scored, but it begs the question of "what if one or both teams want to play negative slow down rugby?" instead.

But I digress. Ulster had their minds on the job more than the visiting Parisians and forced them into making mistakes even though the Top14 players had the fatter scrapbooks and pay packets.

The man of the match was Ulster flyhalf Ian Humphries who launched the 1st try when he refused to pong a high ball ping and ran it instead and launched a 65 metres attack for the hooker to score.

We saw Sexton play 10 well for Ireland against the Boks and Humphries is another who could take Ireland forward when ROG leaves the scene.

Oz watch: Gasnier had a good game apart from making one of the many SF handling errors when he was dodging about and holding the ball like a bunch of flowers. He was moved to fullback in the 2nd half and made a much better fist of it than when he was moved there against Bayonne recently.

All the games this weekend are the first of a home and away series which means that Ulster have to play SF away next weekend. But the boys from Paris won't get such a big home advantage because they are playing the fixture in Brussells.

 

[Gagger]

Unfortunate to catch a bit of the Newcastle v Montauban bore fest on Thursday.

Newcastle had a friggen big unit at 6 called Josh Apu who apparently did the Reds academy. Is he on any radar screens?

 

[Lindommer]

Josh Afu has played for Tonga subsequent to his Reds days; he wanted to play for the country of his ancestors rather than try out for Oz. According to the current eligibility rules put in place by the ARU he can't play Super rugby here, unless he gets drafted in as a marquee player.

Possibly one for the Melbourne Mudlarks?

 

[Lee Grant]

Newcastle 17 Montauban 6

Gagger, that Amlin Cup game between Newcastle and Montauban wasn't the greatest was it? I have seen a few worse though and the pitch was a bit slippery as it often is this time of the year, and handling was difficult in the rain..

It wasn't an HC match but there will be 3 teams who are eliminated from the Heineken Cup joining the AC in the finals. And the winner of the AC gets an automatic entry into next season's HC; so there is some kind of link.

It's pretty hard to play against Montauban because they are a difficult scrappy team. They don't have great stars but they are tenacious as hell. They beat Clermont in the rain at home a couple of weeks ago and damn near beat Toulouse away the week before that.

They were being their snarly best in the first half and looking for another upset being 6-3 ahead at oranges, but a bit of rugby broke out in the 2nd hallf and Newcastle put it through the hands for Alex Tait (brother of England player Matt) to score the only try of the match. It was a nice one too.

Thereafter Newcastle were able to contain everything that the mountain boys could throw at them, including a couple of sneaky shots.

Even though the conditions weren't great you could see that there were some crap players on the park. There was also rugby royalty – Carl Hayman, the Newcastle THP. Afu played pretty well. He's about as big as he was as school at BSHS. He may have made it to the S14 but I doubt if he would have become a regular starter.

The MOTM was Newcastle scrummie Mickey Young. It's not the first time I've been impressed by him either. He's a little bloke, even for a scrummie and has played 7s for the Poms. He can't be too far off being considered for test matches.

Cambridge 31 Oxford 27

Well, this has nothing to do with the HC but it is European rugby and seeing Cambridge captain Dan Vickerman playing for 80 minutes again was great. He was sucking in a few seagulls towards the end and the head was nodding from side to side running over to rucks, but if he's ever going to play for Oz again I reckon all he will need is half a season of Super rugby to get ready.

It was a good game too after the amateur first half hour – which is understandable because they were amateurs. There were a few hard heads who had played at a high level, but not many. They were mostly young blokes who won't go much further in the game and must have been thrilled to have played in front of 30,000 people at Twickenham.

Anyway it was 5-7 at oranges and the game broke open in the 2nd half. There was some entertaining play and some good tries. A lot of it was due to poor defence but much had to do with having a go. It must have been strange for the Twickenham crowd to see mostly English (I suppose) rugby players playing in the spirit of the game.

PS Sydney Uni's old scrummie Nick Haydon was playing for Oxford. He tried to do a bit too much himself in the first half but he sniped a nice try in the 2nd, In the background I could see his old Uni team mate, Vickerman, scowling at him for scoring against his team.

 

[Ash]

Sorry for the digression, but the games I have seen of Gasnier he looks a little slow for the wing, or at least he lacks the explosive acceleration you quite often see in the top wingers. He likes to step people though. I'd like to see him at 13, but SF have that huge 13 (Bastareaud) who they like (and seem to use effectively) as a battering ram.

 

[Thomond78]

Lee, that second Perpignan try wasn't from a lineout.

It was from a ruck, where the Guirado, at the front left of the ruck, reached back behind him into the ruck, picked the ball out and ran. Straight in front of the touch-judge.

How the hell they kept 15 men on the pitch only God and Wayne Barnes know; never seen non-stop offending in the red-zone like it, and I've watched a Wasps team with Dayglo in his pomp.

Main thing was, the breakdown and the scrum were excellent. Du Preez absolutely milled Mas. However, the lineout was wobbly, and Fla is out for ten weeks with an achilles injury.

We need to get a point out of the trip to Perpignan next weekend, or we're in the shit. We should be looking for the five in Treviso, but they're far from bad this year, and beat USAP there. USAP will get five at home against Treviso, so the key is, who wins in Franklin's Gardens between USAP and Northampton (please God, not USAP - if they do, they're almost certainly through), and then, how we do at home to Northampton in the last game.

 

[TheRiddler]

Ulster 23 Stade Français 13

I see that Julian Dupuy has been cited for his alleged eye gouge on Stephen Ferris. Watching it live it didnt look good and even worse in slow motion. It also looks as though Ferris milked it for all it was worth which might prove the saving grace for Dupuy, otherwise I would suspect he's gone for 6 months +

 

[Jethro Tah]

The Julian Dupuy incident was sickening, and the Ayoub one too. I'm a Stade fan and feel really let down by their stupidity. I would expect that Dupuy is out for the rest of the season.

 

[Boomy]

Both have been cited and if found guilty face a minimum of 12 weeks ban and a maximum of 3 years.

For those who haven't caught what happened

Eye gouge starts at 2:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9aKZIh2CHc&feature=player_embedded

and the picture of Attoub sticking his finger in Ferris' eye on the ground caught by a photographer

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/irish/8414636.stm

Stade Francais pair Julien Dupuy and David Attoub will face an independent disciplinary panel on Thursday to answer charges of alleged eye-gouging.

The duo, who will also face internal action by their club, have apologised after being cited for incidents in their Heineken Cup defeat by Ulster.

Punishments range from a 12-week ban to a maximum of three years.

"It is normal that the club penalises players for actions which are idiotic and stupid," the pair's statement read.

"Again we apologise to the players and the Ulster club. Our actions were neither premeditated nor intentional.

"We also want to apologise to our club, players and staff for the negative image we've created."

 

[Newb]

what was dupuy saying to him afterwards? "yeah, my fingers, your eyes. and i yanked your scrum cap off too. want a picture?" what was there to explain exactly? brave little man walking up to him like that. surprised he didn't get decked.

hard to tell what's going on with the ayoub one. looks nasty but i didn't see how his arm ended up there. hard to tell if he can see where his fingers are. not sure if that matters though. certainly reckless.

 

[cyclopath]

Some marvellous restraint from Ferris - I don't normally condone belting another player, but by God that was a situation that warranted it. Just blatant and gutless.
The second one looks funny in the still shot - may just be an arm going where it ought not a bit randomly. Dupuy deserves plenty of time off.

 

[macg101]

Fairly nervous about this one, reckon Perpignan will be unstoppable at home, which means it could come down to who can get a bonus point in Treviso which is proving quite difficult this season. There seems to be very few whipping boys around.

If only we can get the back line going a bit then we could take advantage of the huge amount of territory O’Gara gives us. If only the old laws of the breakdown were still floating around…

It would probably benefit the Italian teams to be involved in the Magners League so they can build exposure.

 

[Boomy]

The second one looks funny in the still shot - may just be an arm going where it ought not a bit randomly. Dupuy deserves plenty of time off.

Just a bit of a follow up. Dupuy got 24 weeks (6 months) for his rework of Ferris' face; Attoub's hearing is postponed until January as they gather further evidence.

Can read about it here - http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/1219/1224260978482.html

The judicial officer found Dupuy’s offence was at the top level of seriousness for an offence of this type and suspended him until June 3rd. It means the international player will miss Stade Francais’s entire Heineken Cup campaign, all of the domestic French competitions and the Six Nations Championship.

He has the right to appeal, but even a cursory look at his behaviour would suggest the ERC have grounds to extend, not reduce, the suspension given that his contempt for Ferris was expressed in full view of the television cameras.

David Attoub, who was a replacement prop last week, was also cited for gouging, but his hearing was adjourned until January as further evidence needs to be considered. The judicial officer, however, imposed an immediate interim suspension on Attoub pending that hearing.

 

[Lindommer]

Dupuy's suspension looks about right. Makes Shalk's eight weeks look tame. He was unbelievably lucky.

I hope this sends a signal, especially to French rugby, eye-gouging is absolutely unacceptable. Next one caught should go for at least a year.

 

[cyclopath]

24 weeks deserved - still think a punch in the head would have been a fair thing too.

 

[Thomond78]

So, we went to Perpignan, the T14 champions, who haven't lost at home in any competition of any description in about four or five years.

14-37 to us. And they were flattered by that, btw, because two of their penalties were stone-cold wrong, and their try very, very suspect.

We hammered the living Christ out of them. In every phase. JdV came on, and finally showed the real Jean. Mafi was excellent, but JdV with Earls running angles off him (and, in passing - there's a young player who has everything and is really heading for the top. Superb yesterday), we may see something special.

POC was scary. Absolutely incredible, as were the entire backrow.

Oh, and on Boerwatch; Wian du Preez. Ate Mas alive and shat him out, for the second week in a row. This guy is a better scrummager than Beast, and with the European experience behind him, is a definite guy to watch.

Weekend in Barcelona, lovely drive across the border past the snow-capped Pyrenees, into one of the best places to watch rugby on earth, with a great crowd, the Catalan national team (USAP) and their supporters from France and Spain (and loads of both speaking Catalá), fantastic game and back home in Cork by midnight. I love the HEC.

 

[Jethro Tah]

Stade beat Ulster 29 to 16 in crap weather thus plenty of handling errors and kicks. The game was supposed to be in Belgium but snow forced it back to Paris although near blizzard conditions here did not entice me out to the game.

Apparently Dupuy is going to appeal his 6 month suspension.