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Headgear?

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The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
My stance is in line with what FP and more or less what Scarfy said. If there is some solid scientific evidence of the causes of concussion in the contact sports, particularly rugby, then it would be wise to get it out in the public domain. That way the laws of the game may be modified based on that evidence, as might some training methods and tackling technique.

The sport is collision based, but there are ways to do it so guys don't end up with Parkinson's or other neurological disorders when they are in their 50's.
 
D

daz

Guest
I'll just say this - the status quo has changed as far as concussion goes. We now have new scientific evidence about long term damage. You can choose to laugh it off or start working towards solutions.

+1.

Once upon a time seatbelts weren't considered a neccesary safety requirement. After the 10,000th person flew through a windscreen that rule was revisited. Now you get a fine for not wearing one.

Once it was ok to smoke during pregancy. That was changed based on research data.

Once you could legitimately bump a guy in the head if you were going for the ball and his head was over it. Not any more.

My point is, rules are enforceable, but they are not permanent. Rules and/or health advice change if there is a reason for doing so or if public/political will exists.
 

Set piece magic

John Solomon (38)
Fair enough, put some money into researching it and so on and try and find a way to stop it but I don't think headgear is the way. I play rugby, never wear headgear, get knocked around from violent clean outs (play flanker), plenty of headknocks, no concussion ever. I have a 63cm head (circumference) that's big and bulky though. Personally I think it just depends on person by person, and no amount of protection (unless it's something ridiculous) will change that.

Bring on the facts from a study
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
I have Gilbert headgear from a few years ago that was developed with research to make it slip in contact as a concussion preventer. If it works or not I don't know, but you basically wet it and it becomes a little slippery, like the old vaso on a boxers face it's meant to cause a slip when ever something comes into contact with it.

Seems logical, I got a concussion the second time I wore it so can't say I believe in it, but I still wear it.
 

Jnor

Peter Fenwicke (45)
That is a MASSIVE head spik, I'm 60 and I thought that was big. I have been ko'd playing once and kept getting concussed after I came back. Turned out it was a compression of vertebrae on my spinal cord. Took some time to fix and been fine since, but it wasn't too fun at the time.

No idea how or why it happened (memory's non-existent, funnily enough) but never had problems in the seven years before that and hopefuly won't have any more.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
I never wore headgear and never really felt the need to. With that said, I had enough problems with my shoulders to worry about (which led to me ceasing to play).
 

Riptide

Dave Cowper (27)
The IRB employed a full-time medical officer back in 2007 and so they'd probably have more information on such matters relating to concussion and player welfare. However, I havent seen any evidence that the type of padding reduces concussion in any way. Here is one article that references a study that concluded that amateur boxers (wearing headgear) were just as likely to suffer from brain damage as professional boxers, and suggests that the head-gear that Barnes wishes to wear will not offer the desired protection. http://news.softpedia.com/news/Boxing-Damages-Brain-Despite-Headgear-Protection-35433.shtml

I would much prefer refs to start policing laws wrt to gear (pads etc.). Some of the shoulder pads being worn nowadays are ridiculous.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Here is more from an IRB study on head-gear: http://www.irbplayerwelfare.com/?documentid=41

"Padded headgear does not reduce the rate of head injury or concussion"

The plot thickens ...........................

Boffin wants Berrick's headgear call explored
Jamie Pandaram
June 3, 2011

DURBAN: A biomechanics expert who completed a study for the IRB and Australian Rugby Union on the effectiveness of headgear in preventing concussion believes Berrick Barnes's calls for thicker protection might have merit.

Dr Andrew McIntosh produced a report in 2009 which concluded that standard headgear allowed by the IRB made no difference to concussion rates when compared with players who wore no headgear at all.

McIntosh told the Herald that his study by no means suggested that thicker, modified headgear was also ineffective in preventing concussion, which until now has been a common misconception arising out of his report. The IRB has misread it, too.
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The report monitored more than 4000 players with roughly a third each assigned to play without headgear, with standard headgear, and with headgear with extra padding.

Those asked to wear the thicker headgear, however, found it uncomfortable and refused to don the apparel throughout the two-year study. Too few participants meant a conclusive call could not be drawn.

''There weren't enough people - it is what is called an 'underpowered' study,'' McIntosh said. ''There was no difference when wearing standard headgear to no headgear at all, but a very big reduction when wearing the modified headgear. However, it was not statistically significant [due to the low number of participants].

''If that trend had continued and we had sampled more people we would have had a statistically significant reduction [in concussion].''

The revelation has enormous ramifications for the IRB's governing laws. For the past two years they have cited McIntosh's report as proof that headgear does not prevent concussion. That is true only of the headgear they allow, which can be no more than one centimetre thick.

''The study showed the potential, with thicker headgear, to reduce the severity of head injuries,'' McIntosh said. ''It follows standard biometrics. If you have slightly thicker matter, you can reduce the impact of what people can tolerate.''

Now the debate centres on whether the IRB should allow thicker headgear. A spokesman said: ''The IRB has never promoted the wearing of padded headgear as a measure to reduce the chances of concussion. The wearing of approved padded headgear has been sanctioned on the basis that it should not cause harm or injury to anyone on the field of play.

''Education is key and the IRB takes the area of concussion very seriously. There are defined guidelines governing diagnosis and return-to-play management.

''It is important that players understand that they should not take risks with concussion or multiple concussions and always seek medical advice.''

The original study, published in the journal Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise, concluded: ''Padded headgear does not reduce the rate of head injury or concussion. The low compliance rates are a limitation. Although individuals may choose to wear padded headgear, the routine or mandatory use of protective headgear cannot be recommended.''

McIntosh said more research needed to be done before dismissing the idea that headgear was ineffective in preventing concussion. He has already approached sporting bodies about further studies.

Wallabies and Waratahs playmaker Barnes believes extra padding around the temple and the back of the head will help prevent concussion and the onset of footballer's migraine. Both have plagued him throughout his career.

Barnes, who might design a new style of headgear with his sponsor, Gilbert, highlighted the effectiveness of boxing headgear in preventing concussion.

''You look at boxing and the extra thickness in padding - I don't see too many amateur boxers getting knocked out in a fight,'' he said. ''I'm not getting knocked with someone hitting me face to face, I'm getting knocked out by getting hit in the back of the head, and on the temple, and something triggers and it sends me over.

''Jaw you can't do anything about, but my issue is trying to protect the temple and the back parts of your head. It's something to look at and design, it's probably not going to be the most aesthetically pleasing thing, but it would be something worth looking at.''

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...ll-explored-20110602-1fiw4.html#ixzz1OAMVh1MD
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
If we made a list of players with concussion injuries, it would consist mostly of backs. I can't see any reason why BB shouldn't wear boxing gear or modified boxing gear.

[quick digression - does anyone else think it must be impossible for props to bind onto skin tight jerseys?]
 

Bullrush

Geoff Shaw (53)
If we made a list of players with concussion injuries, it would consist mostly of backs. I can't see any reason why BB shouldn't wear boxing gear or modified boxing gear.

[quick digression - does anyone else think it must be impossible for props to bind onto skin tight jerseys?]

I think someone else has mentioned that the bigger, thicker head gear may actually be dangerous for the opposition.

But yes, I agree with the binding and the jerseys.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
If we made a list of players with concussion injuries, it would consist mostly of backs. I can't see any reason why BB shouldn't wear boxing gear or modified boxing gear.

[quick digression - does anyone else think it must be impossible for props to bind onto skin tight jerseys?]

Read somewhere that some team jerseys have a different design for the forwards that uses a fabric that can be gripped easier on the flanks / ham area. Else just grip the ham itself. There's usually lots there :)
 

Bullrush

Geoff Shaw (53)
Read somewhere that some team jerseys have a different design for the forwards that uses a fabric that can be gripped easier on the flanks / ham area. Else just grip the ham itself. There's usually lots there :)

For spiderman maybe......I don't care how much easier the material is to grip, when it's damn near spraypainted on it's that tight, it'll always be tough to grab.
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
For spiderman maybe......I don't care how much easier the material is to grip, when it's damn near spraypainted on it's that tight, it'll always be tough to grab.

It's not really the form of fabric, it's the arrangement. I've have seen these, it's sort of like a pocket on the ribs of the prop.
 
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