Growing QLD Schoolboy Rugby

[Bowside]

Interesting news this week that from 2012, GPS rugby will be played over the course of term 3. Although not confirmed yet there is talk the AIC and TAS may well follow suit.

This presents a great opportunity for growth of the code in qld schools. With term 2 now free there is the potential to form a new 9 or 10 week long region based schools comp inclusive of gps, aic, tas and public schools. Senior grade clubs might also field teams in the first few years to cater for those boys whose school doesn't yet have a rugby program or are not good enough for the "A" team (only A teams compete), with the expectation being that if your school has a team you play for it.

A quick structure I though up this afternoon would be to split the comp into 5 regional zones: Brisbane North, Brisbane South, Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast and Darling Downs. The smaller Zones such as GC, SC and DD would only have a single tier, whilst the Brisbane Zones would run a 2 tier's with promotion and relegation.

At the end of the term rep teams from each regional zone would then be picked to play a round of fixtures against the other zones during the first week of school holidays. This would serve as the selection trials for the Qld Schoolboys team to play in the Australian schools tournament in Week 3 of the school holidays. Thus doing away with the GPS, AIC and CSS teams and the bullshit politics that come with it.

This system would have many advantages such as:

- The ability for non traditional rugby schools to mix it with the big guns.

- Provide a solid round of trial games for the GPS, AIC and TAS schools so that when term 3 rolls around the combinations have already gelled - hopefully leading to a higher standard of rugby.

- Could lead to less of a focus on the practise of 'importing', as player will no longer have to attend a GPS school to have a chance of making it into rep teams.

- League schools such as Marsden, Wavell, Keebra Park and PBC have the opportunity to field teams as the competition runs before the schoolboy league season really gets under way.

The main problems/downsides are:

- What do you do about Central and North QLD as the travel involved is almost to much to class them into 2 zones, and I worry about the strength of their rep team?

- Could result in a few cricket scores along the way.

- The effect on U13-U17 club rugby. This comp would pretty much wipe out U13-U17 club rugby, personally I dont think this is a bad thing and we should do away with it after U12/13. Once kids reach high school age they should play for their school, makes logistical sense with regards to training and is a better experience. Club competition becomes a farce in the teenage years anyway, and 2 games a weekend can be a bit much, especially as the boys get older. Perhaps club rugby still has a place in north and central Queensland for those kids who don't go to a rugby school.

I thought I'd just put this in print and see what everyone though of it, as sadly our code often misses growth opportunities such as this.

 

[Refabit]

Bowside your proposal has serious merit. A new competition with wider involvement of differing schools could only serve to improve rugby in SEQ. However opportunity and reality seldom coincide in Qld schoolboy rugby. There will be no new term 2 based competition. Don't look to the QRU to champion such a cause either - they pay token care to schoolboy rugby.
In fact the GPS decision will only harm schools rugby, forcing the season to be crammed into 1 term. This will mean less preparation/buildup/trials for the boys. Many of the boys already complain of the season being too short compared to the club competition. And when the kiwi schools visit they drool at the rugby programs they enjoy.
Its a sad day for GPS rugby with this decision.

 

[Doc]

Actually I disagree Refabit. There will only be very few who play soccer given the chance, so it probably won't impact into the preparation too much. It will benefit the non-scholarship schools who will get 3-4 months with there rowers, not 3-4 days. Where it will really hurt is QLD schools will lose advantage over NSW schools.

I don't like it all in one term, but won't be disaster from prep point of view

 

[Bowside]

Bowside your proposal has serious merit. A new competition with wider involvement of differing schools could only serve to improve rugby in SEQ. However opportunity and reality seldom coincide in Qld schoolboy rugby. There will be no new term 2 based competition. Don't look to the QRU to champion such a cause either - they pay token care to schoolboy rugby.
In fact the GPS decision will only harm schools rugby, forcing the season to be crammed into 1 term. This will mean less preparation/buildup/trials for the boys. Many of the boys already complain of the season being too short compared to the club competition. And when the kiwi schools visit they drool at the rugby programs they enjoy.
Its a sad day for GPS rugby with this decision.

I wrote it in the hope people would start discussing it a bit more, so at least something is done. Sadly I don't think anything will happen either.

 

[Bowside]

Actually I disagree Refabit. There will only be very few who play soccer given the chance, so it probably won't impact into the preparation too much. It will benefit the non-scholarship schools who will get 3-4 months with there rowers, not 3-4 days. Where it will really hurt is QLD schools will lose advantage over NSW schools.

I don't like it all in one term, but won't be disaster from prep point of view

Very valid point about the rowers. So much go's into a rowing season nowadays that many of the rowers just want to focus on their studies a bit more (and get pissed every weekend) once the seasons over. Rugby is almost an afterthought. Current system also pushes a lot the of the rugby starts out of the rowing program.

 

[Ignoto]

It will benefit the non-scholarship schools who will get 3-4 months with there rowers, not 3-4 days.

As a rowing coach for the past two seasons at one of the GPS schools who is no-way seen as a rugby force, we've lost a significant proportion of Rowers in the senior ranks to Rugby because the Rugby side has put significant pressure on them not being able to do both Rowing and Rugby. Their argument is some crap about those who Row will be significantly smaller than if they solely concentrated on Rugby and their weights (from Term 4 of the previous year till Term 3 of the following year).

I'm actually hoping that this change will benefit the Rowers through a two-fold effect.
1. The pre-season isn't such a gigantic part of the season - November/December to August/September which seems to burn alot of young kids out.
2. Rowing/Cricket/Volleyball etc all finish in Term 1, so Rugby will have an entire term to work with these kids, essentially giving them more time, instead of them basically finishing Head of River etc and playing a trial in a week or two time.

I think everyone is overlooking that the season will only officially kick off in Term 3, I would dare say that trials etc will still happen in mid to late term 2, it's just the official round 1 of the GPS rugby will occur in Term 3.

I don't think it's that big of a deal, the only difference is now the kids wont have a two week lay off in the middle through the Semester break.

As a Rowing coach Im hoping it helps us get those boys back who are being "forced" into rugby instead of being allowed to do both (much like I was able to do and other schools do).

 

[sportsfan]

Ignoto, you should tell your boys (and their coaches) that there were 2 Australian Schools players in 2010 who were also 1st VIII at their scholl in overlapping seasons. Hooker Hugh Roach rowed in the Newington VIII (third HOR) and Prop Guy Millar rowed in the Kings School VIII. Fit and strong all year round makes a good (schools) rugby player better.
PS both dominated thier respective rugby positions as well, so much for rowing making players "small"

 

[Informer]

Ignoto, you should tell your boys (and their coaches) that there were 2 Australian Schools players in 2010 who were also 1st VIII at their scholl in overlapping seasons. Hooker Hugh Roach rowed in the Newington VIII (third HOR) and Prop Guy Millar rowed in the Kings School VIII. Fit and strong all year round makes a good (schools) rugby player better.
PS both dominated thier respective rugby positions as well, so much for rowing making players "small"

Talk to Hugh Roach. He was about 5 kilos lighter due to rowing and only packed the weight on at the end of the season. It is a fact, rowers strip off weight while rugby packs it on

 

[Bowside]

Talk to Hugh Roach. He was about 5 kilos lighter due to rowing and only packed the weight on at the end of the season. It is a fact, rowers strip off weight while rugby packs it on

Another reason to adopt the term 2 plan. Schoolboy sport isn't professional, its wrong to tie a 17 year old bloke down to one sport.

 

[Ignoto]

Fit and strong all year round makes a good (schools) rugby player better.

Thanks for two good examples, Im sure to keep it in my arsenal for whenever the conversation gets heated again.

I'll admit that Rowing does shed some muscle, but the gains that a boy will get from doing Rowing over Terms 4 and 1, in fitness is greater than if they were just hit the gym and become monsters.

However, its not like they lose all muscle creation, they're still young, developing boys and we still force them do weights. We focus alot on strengthing the lower body and Im willing to bet that a majority of the rowers can deadlift and squat more than the guys who solely focus on rugby. This in my opinion is a great asset for the forwards and does wonders for the required leg drive in contact.

Another reason to adopt the term 2 plan. Schoolboy sport isn't professional, its wrong to tie a 17 year old bloke down to one sport.

My feelings exactly. I don't see the point of forcing a kid to only do one sport for the sake of it. Why make a kid make such a silly decision when the consequences of doing both sports is so marginal on their effectiveness of being a better "rugby player".

 

[Lee Grant]

Where it will really hurt is QLD schools will lose advantage over NSW schools.

We in NSW always used to have a whinge that our Sydney GPS lads had barely any games before they were out on the park playing for NSW Schools against Qld Schools. There was always a lot more bitching about the selection of the NSW Schools teams and I think doing it too early was part of the problem. Too many lads were picked on the reputation they gained the year before. Had to be really.

We found out that the NSW Ones hit their straps towards the end of the tournament because at last they had some rugby under their belts, but by that time it was mostly too late. And yep, before last year when the quixotic "Pappa" was in charge, the NSW Ones usually had a high proportion of GPS players.

By contrast the Qld lads were on top of their game from Day 1.

[The above deals in generalisations, but I think I have the vibe of it.]

I don't know if the change is good for Qld GPS rugby or the other groups who may follow suit but I know that a lot of Sydney GPS rugby players enjoy their rowing.

The sky will not fall, but maybe NSW Schools will be more competitive.

 

[Goldenone]

I think that we might all be missing the real reason for this.A number of GPS schools do play Aussie Rules and the Gold Coast mob have installed those posts at their Prep School !! THere is heavy promotion for AFL on the coast.Look out !!!!

 

[DownsSupporter]

IMO the matter is one of affording students the opportunity to play, across terms, a number of sports - rugby to soccer, and soccer to rugby with ALF fitting in there somewhere..I dont believe it will be successful with the boys in the short term but I think the GPS schools will apply the appriopriate pressure to participate. Thus I think,any hope of an additional cross association schools rugby comp in the non GPS rubny term is born to failure.

I would hope the club structure would pick up the slack and offer rugby opportunities/comps to GPS and others schools during the non rugby terms ....it is somethingsthat has been attempted on the Downs this year and is an approach worth perservering with

 

[Set piece magic]

I was talking to people at school about this and apparently it's all off. The rumour was going round last year about splitting soccer and rugby to allow people to play both...

Rumour has it that out of the nine schools (a clean majority of votes was needed), 7 said yes, 2 said no.

I can guarantee you that so long as the current 9 are running their schools (in particular 3 or 4 who are stuck in the 1970's), they will never ever play against non GPS teams for premiership points. Just won't happen.

 

[Bowside]

IMO the matter is one of affording students the opportunity to play, across terms, a number of sports - rugby to soccer, and soccer to rugby with ALF fitting in there somewhere..I dont believe it will be successful with the boys in the short term but I think the GPS schools will apply the appriopriate pressure to participate. Thus I think,any hope of an additional cross association schools rugby comp in the non GPS rubny term is born to failure.

I would hope the club structure would pick up the slack and offer rugby opportunities/comps to GPS and others schools during the non rugby terms ....it is somethingsthat has been attempted on the Downs this year and is an approach worth perservering with

The clubs already do to an extent in Brisbane, but the season is short, player numbers are low, and the standard vary's from team to team. Most junior clubs cant field a team once kids go to high school anyway, it is only the large senior affiliated clubs like brothers, sunnybank, gps, etc, who can field teams, and normally it is only 1 per age group if they are lucky.

While I understand your point about boys playing certain sports in certain terms, I think this competition would prosper due to the fact that each school only enters one team in each age group, allowing the bulk of rugby players (who do not play in the top team) to play a different sport in term 2. Also interesting to note that while AFL is expanding, some GPS schools wont touch it with a 10 foot pole.

It also, as lee pointed out, provides a proving ground for selection in rep teams. Without a term 2 competition the selectors will have to pick according to a mixed bag of club, school trial games, and of course reputation. It would also provide more exposure to players from the darling downs, as they would select a rep team and then play games in Brisbane, rather than forcing selectors to watch tapes of rag tag school trial games.

 

[Bowside]

I was talking to people at school about this and apparently it's all off. The rumour was going round last year about splitting soccer and rugby to allow people to play both...

Rumour has it that out of the nine schools (a clean majority of votes was needed), 7 said yes, 2 said no.

I can guarantee you that so long as the current 9 are running their schools (in particular 3 or 4 who are stuck in the 1970's), they will never ever play against non GPS teams for premiership points. Just won't happen.

I'm not sure but you might be referring to a different issue, which was the vote to allow schools like Marist College Ashgrove (or lauries and downlands) to play against GPS schools in rugby for points.

That decision had nothing to do with rugby, but rather a desire for the catholic schools to keep their GPS prestige (keeps enrolment's high). The competition I suggested is something totally different as it preserved the historical 9 school GPS rugby season, whilst adding a separate competition in term 2. This is not a new concept for GPS sport, many GPS schools have volleyball, rowing and basketball teams that compete in state wide schoolboy championships in the lead up to the GPS season.

 

[Set piece magic]

Ah i see. Sorry I went off on the wrong tangent there. I was also talking about the changes to the schedule for the gps schools which I heard had been called off, however, I recently read this in my schools newsletter

Statement From The Great Public Schools Association Of Queensland, Inc

For some time the heads of the nine member schools of the GPS Association and their respective Directors of Sport and Activities have been examining potential changes to the annual sports calender. During this period the association was keen to receive feedback from the various school communities and to this end sought and received over 3000 responses from an on-line (yes they spelt it like that) survey. After an examination of the various costs and benefits, it has been resolved that the sports calender will change from the commencement of the 2012 school year.

New model

Term 1
swimming
cricket
rowing
volleyball

Term 2
Football
Debating
Cross Country

Term 3

Rugby
Basketball
Chess
Gymnastics

Term 4
Track and field
Sailing

I thinkthat what bowside is proposing is a good idea, perhaps having the GPS premiership in Term 3 and an aic, gps, state schools competition structured like the world cup, ie. four pools two go to quarters ect

 

[Bowside]

Basketball needs to be moved to term 2 or played on a friday arvo. Rugby and Basketball are to big to compete.

 

[Set piece magic]

Put rugby on it's own and basketball alongside football and you'll get a nice power struggle happening - weaken them both up just in time for rugby to pick up the pieces

 

[Spewn]

Basketball should be abolished. That would solve the problem.