Good Players Playing Badly

[RoffsChoice]

This year we've seen good players like Genia and Horwill playing not just average, but poorly. With Horwill it looks like he needs a rest - all players do from time to time. But with Genia, I just don't know. We know he's world class at his best but right now he's at a deep, deep low - not passing from the ground, abysmal kicking, poor decision making, passes hanging in the air. Dropping Genia to the bench did not help, so what would?

We all know Genia can be the best 9 in the world but right now I'd consider Josh "my pass is a mating dance" Valentine above Genia. What I want to know is how we plan to get him back to form.

 

[Zander]

I think that's answer every coach in the world wants to know.

 

[Brumby Jack]

Funny you should mention players needing a rest, I looked at the Super Rugby playing minutes of the 32 on tour and Horwill and Genia were well down on playing minutes over others.

Horwill had 684 minutes and Genia 906 compared to say Mowen 1440 (played an average 80 minutes) and Moore at 1295.

I haven't seen the Test numbers yet but there hasn't been any 'easy' game this year and I can see a slow start for some early next season after such a tough season both mentally and physically.

 

[RoffsChoice]

Wow, Mowen and Moore still going well despite a long season. I suspect Lord and Bernie will give them a fortnight or two off after they get back.

If Horwill isn't tired, then what's wrong? If he is tired, is this just age hitting him? (Locks seem to drop off anytime around 30)

With Genia, I just don't know. He can be the best and I want him at that level again, but resting him isn't working and playing him isn't working. I think a pre-season might have been what he needed but it's too late for that now.

 

[Train Without a Station]

If Horwill isn't tired, then what's wrong? If he is tired, is this just age hitting him? (Locks seem to drop off anytime around 30)

Probably the fact he's been injured, needed to be rushed back and hasn't regained his fitness. Probably still carrying a slight injury too.

 

[wamberal]

Maybe a good player who plays badly for an extended period of time is no longer a good player.

 

[Slim 293]

If Horwill isn't tired, then what's wrong? If he is tired, is this just age hitting him? (Locks seem to drop off anytime around 30)

Nah, good locks mature with age like most tight five forwards.........

 

[Train Without a Station]

I agree. Brad Thorn managed to kick on a year or 2 after 30...

 

[Zander]

Funny you should mention players needing a rest, I looked at the Super Rugby playing minutes of the 32 on tour and Horwill and Genia were well down on playing minutes over others.

Horwill had 684 minutes and Genia 906 compared to say Mowen 1440 (played an average 80 minutes) and Moore at 1295.

I haven't seen the Test numbers yet but there hasn't been any 'easy' game this year and I can see a slow start for some early next season after such a tough season both mentally and physically.

Yes, Genia and Horwill have no excuses at all. Their minutes are no where near comparable to Moore, Mowen, Hooper, Ashley-Cooper and Folau.

 

[Ash]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but both Horwill and Genia returned from significant injuries this year.

Genia's knee op in particular is something that usually takes players 6 months to a year to get back into form post comeback.

Wouldn't be surprised if Horwill has been carrying injuries as well, he'd missed games here and there since his comeback.

Not sure if leaving players off of the EOYT to get a full preseason would be better for players like Genia or Horwill.

 

[Zander]

So they've had even more time off!

 

[TOCC]

Yes, Genia and Horwill have no excuses at all. Their minutes are no where near comparable to Moore, Mowen, Hooper, Ashley-Cooper and Folau.

Thats a very simplistic way of looking at it, the context of the situation is that Genia was injured until Rd5 and played every minuted of the remaining games from Rd 7 onwards. He missed out on a full pre-season and i doubt he has been at full fitness all year given his rehab and disrupted off-season.

 

[Zander]

How is that an excuse? He shouldn't be playing if he's playing poor - regardless of the reason why.

 

[TOCC]

How is that an excuse? He shouldn't be playing if he's playing poor - regardless of the reason why.

Where is the excuse?
Just pointing out that purely quoting minutes played throughout the year is a simplistic way of measuring whether a player has had enough 'rest' and ignores plenty of other factors..

 

[It is what it is]

Maybe we need to be more proactive in managing the careers of our players.
NZ have done a great job retaining their star players by allowing and supporting sabbaticals. McCaw, Carter and now Smith have been supported in either taking time off or taking on an overseas assignment to freshen them up.
Has any other team been able to get SBW to rejoin them? Chances are the All Blacks will because they have been flexible and not thrown the toys out of the cot when he needed a shift in direction to box or play league.
We always seem to be reactive, wait for the player to lose form or become injured and only then think about resting them or freshening them up.
Where is our high performance manager in all of this?
Whether it's injury, fatigue or other, Genia and Horwill are way off their best game and need help and management.

 

[TOCC]

I think in the case of Genia a lot of the problems can be traced back to his knee injury, his rehabilitation period may have been long enough for his knee to heal fully but like i mentioned above his pre-season training would have massively disrupted, its hard to close the strength and fitness gap through the season when you're playing 80min games each week.

Look at Quade in 2012, part of his issues were in the head but i think that was also a reflection of his physical state at the time. He came back from the same injury as Genia and put in a few 'pass' performances through the remaining Super Rugby campaign but was no where near the form he was in the year prior and ultimately crashed and burned in the RC test matches.

Back to Genia, the fine motor skills are the first thing to degrade under physical fatigue, thats possibly one of the reasons that his passing and box kicking have been so bad in the recent games. Is he training too hard throughout the week? Is his physical fitness not allowing him to perform at the top level?


So maybe player management and their workload is the issue, key players are returning form injury too soon without the proper strength and fitness training to allow them to reach peak form.. Just look at the likes of Elsom, Palu, Ioane and TPN and their would appear to be somewhat of a trend.

 

[Bowside]

I said this in the match thread and I'll say it again here:

Genia threw some absolutely sublime passes under pressure last night. We can talk about how shit his box kicks were till the cows come home; but on a few occasions he was able to get a pass away that no other Australian scrummy could have.

Genia I'll back to recover from this slump.

I think Horwill's knee is probably fucked. I hope he gets back to it but I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't.

 

[Dan54]

With Genia, I remember after 2011 World Cup he said he was very interested in going overseas to play, as he realised how much the game was played around world and it would be a great way to experience another culture. He then talked of going to Force etc ,but was talked out of it and stuck with Reds. I tend to think going overseas for a year or 2 may have given him a shot in the arm, as I get impression at times he looks quite stale, and has for last couple of years.
Ok just a theory , but all I got .

 

[It is what it is]

If Genia was a horse he'd be sent for a spell.
We want him winning Group 1 races for us not picking up minor prize money in mid-week handicaps.

 

[Ignoto]

If Horwill isn't tired, then what's wrong? If he is tired, is this just age hitting him? (Locks seem to drop off anytime around 30)

You're only looking at the physical element of being a professional athlete, another huge side is the mental area. It's been a huge year for a lot of the players, the B&IL tour would have sapped a lot of mental freshness out of the players (just look back after the game 2 win) and the ARU decided it'd be a great year for a grand slam. I'd imagine a lot of these players have been solely focused on rugby since the end of January with only a week's break here and there. Even then they've still got commitments to do so they haven't had a chance to mentally re-charge for it all.

If you watch the roundball game, the Europeans play for a similar period (and if not longer) with two-three games a week for a month or two. You can see players go through form slumps so they rely on having great depth in their teams to allow players to rest. With the injuries we've had and the lack of depth, a lot of these guys are playing with injuries and are just mentally wrecked.