Good article on George Smith

[Spook]

Langthorne, you may learn something :fishing

I don't thnk Eddie has been this rational...well ever..

Canberra Test a fine reward for Wallabies great George Smith
Article from Eddie Jones
June 13, 2009 12:00am

THE mercurial George Smith has waited nine years to play a "home" Test in Canberra and the faithful who brave the cold will watch a forward I rank right up there with the great John Eales as the Wallabies' greatest ever forward.

By my reckoning, Smith joins Eales, Toutai Kefu and David Giffin as the top four Wallaby forwards in the modern era since the game went professional in 1996.

In 1999, Ewen McKenzie, my assistant coach at the ACT Brumbies, and I watched a video of Manly playing Warringah in a Sydney club game.

George, all wild dreadlocks in those days, had played colts the previous week but within 10 minutes of watching this young flanker we knew we had seen a special player.

We duly signed him as a 19-year-old from under the noses of the NSW Waratahs. The Brumbies had got themselves a truly great player, whose loyalty to the Brumbies family and the Wallabies is second to none.

It has taken until his 97th Test to get a shot at playing at Canberra Stadium where Test rugby has been absent since 2000. He'll lap it up tonight against the Italians and be a huge nuisance.

What was special about George way back then and even more so now, was his innate sense of being able to find the ball and then use the ball.

George could run, pass and link supremely well. He has added a subtle kicking game and even long-time George Smith watchers remark that he keeps on expanding his skills.

He was a tough little bugger from the start. Now he carries the banner as the Wallabies' toughest forward. From the grandstand or watching on TV you don't see half of the physical punishment he cops in rattling collisions and at the breakdown.

George's pass to lock James Horwill last week for the opening try against the Barbarians was sublime. His ability to draw defenders to him is as good as Matt Giteau, a flyhalf.

George will enjoy playing against Italy's former State of Origin star Craig Gower tonight. He loves his rugby league and was courted heavily by Manly Sea Eagles.

The Wallaby flanker will try his best to pressure Gower by putting heat on him in defence.

Gower has played well this year for his French club Bayonne. He reads a rugby game well. He has a full bag of tricks and is courageous in defence.

He will make the Italians play better but their level of play is very moderate.

The local fans, under their beanies and scarves, at Canberra Stadium will pay worthy homage to all-time great George Smith and the Wallabies should win nicely.

 

[Scorz]

I am a little surprised (more like a follow through on a fart rather than waking up from a wet dream) that he left out Owen Finegan. I always rated that rangy looking bugger, was stoked when he wasn't in Canary Yellow anymore.

 

[Pfitzy]

Funny how Eddee doesn't rate any of our props :

 

[Scorz]

Funny how Eddee doesn't rate any of our props :

Mate he's an eedjit, not insane...

 

[Pfitzy]

Foley was the world's best hooker at the peak of his powers by a long shot and its no coincidence we were at our best with Harry and Blades in the front row. It was an era when no-one was allowed to really attack at scrum time admittedly, but these guys held our ball and got through a power of work around the paddock.

To put Giffin in there is just pole-smoking Brumbies love. And Wilson was a far bigger contributor to Wallaby fortunes than Kefu.

I'll bet Eddie's top 10 forwards don't include a front-rower (except maybe Jeremy "Seagull" Paul) because, despite being a hooker, he never really got the importance of it at international level.

 

[Langthorne]

Langthorne, you may learn something :fishing

OK, I'll bite.

Anyone who has read all of my comments (probably no one, lets face it - I'm not that interesting) regarding George Smith will know that I was a fan of his (and still think he is a fine player). He has been a great flanker for the Wallabies. He is very skilled. He gives his all every game (and there were times when it seemed like only he was putting in 100%).

He is not the player he used to be, mainly because he plays a different style of game now (maybe the 'old' style is too tough for someone closer to the end than the beginning?).




Things I learnt:

Eddie Jones is a more of a goose than I thought - nobody comes close to Eales (and Giffin - give me a break)

G. Smith now has a "subtle" kicking game - about as subtle as a turd in a punch bowl.

 

[Spook]

Langthorne, I hope you aren't suggesting Smith isn't tough? The bloke is a machine that can take a lot of punishment. Made for a pro rugby.

Giffin was exceptional I thought. I thought he'd be a well-respected player by all. Nooone said he was as good as Eales (was anyone?).

I'd have Giffin over Harrison, Vickerman or anyone else eince. Horwill is looking good though...

 

[Scotty]

To put Giffin in there is just pole-smoking Brumbies love. And Wilson was a far bigger contributor to Wallaby fortunes than Kefu.

Yep, eddie is still very 'special'.

 

[disco]

Eddie Jones is a more of a goose than I thought - nobody comes close to Eales (and Giffin - give me a break)

G. Smith now has a "subtle" kicking game - about as subtle as a turd in a punch bowl.

:thumb I'll pay you that one Langthorne, Smith should leave the kicking boots at home & Eddie Jones is a wanka he set Aussie Rugby back about 5 years.

 

[Scotty]

Spook, you can't honestly rate Giffin in the top 4 forwards of the modern era though, can you?

 

[Spook]

Spook, you can't honestly rate Giffin in the top 4 forwards of the modern era though, can you?

No, but he would be the second best lock I've seen in the last 10 years or even longer. I'd rate Tim Gavin over him but not many people else.

 

[Spook]

Huh, looks like Bob Dwyer (hardly a Brumbies fan :) agrees with me:

Bob Dwyer’s Australian XV (1982-2003) from Full Time: A Coach’s Memoir

1. Topo Rodriguez
2. Phil Kearns
3. Ewen McKenzie
4. Tim Gavin
5. John Eales
6. Viliami’ Ofahengaue
7. Simon Poidevin
8. Steve Tuynaman
9. Nick Farr-Jones
10. Mark Ella
11. David Campese
12. Tim Horan
13. Michael O’Connor
14. Ben Tune
15. Matt Burke

subs: Tony Daly, Tommy Lawton, David Giffen, David Wilson, George Gregan, Stephen Larkham, Jason Little

Giffen is also a starter in the 2005 Wallaby Team of the Decade - so that incorporates the pro era.

 

[RugbyReg]

Don't know how many games Gavin started at lock and O'Connor at 13 but it'd be I reckon half a dozen at the most, cummulative.

 

[disco]

13. Michael O’Connor

I haven't seen a lot of Michael O'Conner in rugby but he was a brilliant league player but does he really rate higher than Mortlock & Jason Little?

Ok Mortlock only really light up at OC in 2003 but at least Little was around for a while.

 

[Hugonaut]

Foley was the world's best hooker at the peak of his powers by a long shot

Eh, b*llocks? Foley's international career spanned from what, '95 to 2001? Keith Wood [by an absolute f*cking mile] was a far better hooker in that timeframe. Sean Fitz played until '97, and he was still better than Foley, even in his decline. When was Foley at the peak of his powers? For a few months between '96 when Fitzpatrick led the ABs to their first ever successful tour of SA to July '97 when Wood was the best forward on the park against the Boks for the Lions [going on to become the inaugural IRB World Player of the year in 2001]?

Wind your neck in.

 

[Lee Grant]

I am a little surprised (more like a follow through on a fart rather than waking up from a wet dream) that he left out Owen Finegan. I always rated that rangy looking bugger, was stoked when he wasn't in Canary Yellow anymore.

A good impact player Scorz but geez he was a lazy bugger, especially later in his career. I remember once in a test in the RSA his being on the ground and arguing with the ref about some SAffer infraction. Meantime a Bok back went through the area where he was a chance to defend and a try was scored. He should have got up and argued later, but that was Finegan sometimes.

That was a nice article on Smith and he deserves all the wraps. As for the Tahs missing out on a good player: Smith wouldn't be the first, but IIRR they had already signed Phil Waugh who was older and at that time had more runs on the board.

I disagree with Eddie on George's toughness. I reckoned that has developed during his career and that in the last 2-3 years he has worn a tough bastard mantle; but not so much before that. Others would have different opinions, and I'm fine with that.

David Giffin - like Andrew Slack in another position and another era - a very under-rated player IMO.

13. Michael O’Connor

I haven't seen a lot of Michael O'Conner in rugby but he was a brilliant league player but does he really rate higher than Mortlock & Jason Little?

No, you can't compare the three players - you can only compare them on how well they played at the age of 21, which was the age O'Connor was when he played his last game of rugby union. I was at the ground when he played his first game of rugby league - in 2nd Grade, in 1982 IIRR, and I had mixed emotions: on the one hand he had left union, but on the other he was playing for my Dragons league team.

You can't rate Snoz with the other two on a rugby union career basis - they would have far more runs on the board. And talking of under-rated players: Little is another in that category. His reading on defence and doing something about it was scarcely inferior to that of his great mate Horan.

However, eventually he had to give way at both the Reds and Oz to Daniel Herbert, whose elevation could not be denied.

Foley was the world's best hooker at the peak of his powers by a long shot

Eh, b*llocks? Foley's international career spanned from what, '95 to 2001? Keith Wood [by an absolute f*cking mile] was a far better hooker in that timeframe.

Agree, but with Axel Foley (the Oz version T78), he was yet another player who didn't rate as highly as he should have. Foley was an entirely different player to the bald eagle who was a defacto 4th backrower, but his less obvious contribution to the structure of Oz forward play was almost as significant as Wood's brilliance was to Ireland.

 

[Lindommer]

13. Michael O’Connor

I haven't seen a lot of Michael O'Conner in rugby, he was a brilliant league player but does he really rate higher than Mortlock & Jason Little?

I saw a lot of Michael O'Connor playing for Queensland and Australia, especially when he moved north from Canberra in 1981 until he turned to the dark side after the 1982 season. His combination with Ella and Hawker when we beat the ABs in 1980 was sublime. Mind you we had a serviceable forward pack and a few handy outside backs in Moon, Grigg and Gould.

For me, he's up there with our best 13s over the last 40 years.

 

[Lee Grant]

Agreed - he's right up there. What might have been had he stayed in union; he had everything.

But one could never blame elite players for going to earn a living in the other code in the amateur days. Watching Nick Shehadie last Saturday night unveil the statue of Trevor Allan reminded me that "Tubby" had to change to the professional code.

Allan was 22 when he played his last game of union, and Mark Ella played his last game at 25 when he joined the corporate world.

What might have been: Ella and O'Connor at the 1987 RWC might have made a difference.

 

[naza]

Unbelievable. Finally a good discussion on our best forwards and it gets hijacked by the SIW crowd debating outside backs.

 

[Cutter]

Foley was the world's best hooker at the peak of his powers by a long shot

Eh, b*llocks? Foley's international career spanned from what, '95 to 2001? Keith Wood [by an absolute f*cking mile] was a far better hooker in that timeframe.

Agree, but with Axel Foley (the Oz version T78), he was yet another player who didn't rate as highly as he should have. Foley was an entirely different player to the bald eagle who was a defacto 4th backrower, but his less obvious contribution to the structure of Oz forward play was almost as significant as Wood's brilliance was to Ireland.

Foley was rarely the first pick Oz hooker. Even during the 99 world cup, he only started after Kearns went home injured.

Smith is the best openside I have seen (alongside McCaw).