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Giteau and his Crabbing

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farva

Vay Wilson (31)
Its something we have all seen. Australia are in attack, Giteau has the ball in his hands and he starts running at right angles to the way you want him to go, until he finds the sidelines. And then like me, you probably hurl abuse at the television, telling Giteau to sort himself out.

I guess the question of why he does it is quite straight forward. He is hunting for a gap in the defensive line, and when he finds it, he can break through. In Super rugby, he often finds those gaps. Id have gone so far to say that in 2009, when playing for the Force he was the form flyhalf in the competition, such was his ability to make line breaks. He could run around 2 or 3 players and suddenly break through. But in the test arena, against teams like the All Blacks and Springboks, he cant do it. The defensive line is just too solid. Giteau ends up, along with his outside centre and wing, cramped within 5m of the sideline which is easily defended. And then as a view, I get a tad grumpy. This might also be the reason for the idea that many share that Giteau cant perform against the top teams.

So we know that Matt Giteau will play like this, regardless of him being centre or flyhalf. Its part of his psyche. He is the type of player that hunts for gaps, and wants to make the line break. Its why he is such an exciting player, he is always looking to attack. So I guess the question is how can we benefit from this, and why has it only really become an issue in the last few years?

Watching the video series of Australian backlines over the years, I noted that Giteau has been doing his sideways running for quite some time now. However, back in 2005 / 06 we generally thought of Giteau as a serious contender for best inside centre going around. Some of that might have to do with him having Bernie Larkham inside of him and Stirling Mortlock outside of him - surely even I could look good with that either side of me - but I dont think it is the only reason.

By running sideways, Giteau was dragging the defence across with him. They had to follow, if they didnt then a gap would open up through which either Giteau could dart through, or he could put a wing or his OC through. But what that would also mean is that if the defence is following him across, then space is opening up inside of him. Watching the clips from 2005 / 06, many of the line breaks I noticed were because Mortlock or Tuqiri came off the wing a little and ran a line that took them back in to the centre of the field, right into the space that Giteau's crabbing had opened up. Giteau, after making the pass ended up facing the stands, but we had backs running hard down the middle of the field and slicing through opposition lines. And the outside backs playing with Giteau then were the sort of players who ran good hard straight lines - Tuqiri, Mortlock, Roff, etc. They were big and strong.

Today, the Wallaby backs are smaller and quicker. The wings tend to stick to their wing (think Mitchell and Turner) and Adam Ashley-Cooper, when playing outside centre, seems to like staying outside Giteau. JOC (James O'Connor) is teh exception as he will often be found in the centres channel. But he is hardly a big hard running back who would benefit from the space that Giteau is creating in the centres. All that means is that when Giteau crabs, we have three Wallaby backs within 5m of the sideline, and opposition defenders there to cover.

Therefore, I think it quite important to have someone like Digby Ioane playing as one of the outside backs when we select Giteau. Ioane is the type of player who can run hard through the centres. Adam Ashley-Cooper is another player that should benefit. He runs some amazing lines. I will never forget that try he scored against the All Blacks in Sydney last year (where he famously hugged the crowd afterwards) where he cut back in on a line that tore the All Blacks defence to shreds. Id like to see Ashley-Cooper coming back inside off of Giteau more often instead of trying to keep outside of him all the time.

Anyway, there is some of my thoughts. Id appreciate any ideas on that.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
I guess the question of why he does it is quite straight forward. He is hunting for a gap in the defensive line, and when he finds it, he can break through. In Super rugby, he often finds those gaps. Id have gone so far to say that in 2009, when playing for the Force he was the form flyhalf in the competition, such was his ability to make line breaks. He could run around 2 or 3 players and suddenly break through. But in the test arena, against teams like the All Blacks and Springboks, he cant do it.

Several words come to mind reading your excellent post and they include "nail" "hit" "head" and "on".

Your'e on fire today farva. On fire, I tells ya.
 

Reddy!

Bob Davidson (42)
Adam Ashley-Cooper is another player that should benefit. He runs some amazing lines. I will never forget that try he scored against the All Blacks in Sydney last year (where he famously hugged the crowd afterwards) where he cut back in on a line that tore the All Blacks defence to shreds.

That sounds like the Boks game in Brisbane?
 

farva

Vay Wilson (31)
That sounds like the Boks game in Brisbane?

Maybe it was the Boks game.
In fact it was the Boks game.

Thanks for the reminder - memories of things like that are usually a little cloudy due to the alcohol involved!
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
Quade Cooper scored his try against the All Blacks on the weekend by crabbing.

Sorry Reddy, that just plain wrong. He ran an oblique line, almost identical to Campo's in the 91 RWC semi. He had the ball in two hands and Jane made the same mistake as Kirwan did and turned out to him. It was most definitely not a crab.
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
Sorry Reddy, that just plain wrong. He ran an oblique line, almost identical to Campo's in the 91 RWC semi. He had the ball in two hands and Jane made the same mistake as Kirwan did and turned out to him. It was most definitely not a crab.

I had to laugh Gnostic. Where would you draw the line between crabbing and this oblique line you speak of?
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
Good thoughts Farva but even in the S14 I don't recall Giteau getting the lattitude against the better defensive teams like the Crusaders and Bulls where his crabbing runs drew the defenders to make the space as you suggest, only video evidence can prove it? Only the weaker teams fell into those patterns and opened up the spaces for the switch runners on the inside. My memory of Giteau's issues starting is when he was experimented with at 10 and then 9 at test level. The "playmaking" role just doesn't seem to suit him. If his responsibility is to get himself into a gap or make a break he is fine. As a player to set up others he clearly struggles and more often than not ends up crowding out those same players or they get the ball in a pressured situation. Contrast this with Cooper who can make a break on his own but more regualrly beats the defence with pin point passing and support.

Barnes break was a classic show and go
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
I had to laugh Gnostic. Where would you draw the line between crabbing and this oblique line you speak of?

Oblique is just that "slanting, indirect" as defined by the Oxford. The motion is still forward. Look at his run, it was at worst 45 degrees to the try line starting from 15-20 metres out he crossed the line. Contrast to Giteau's run in the same half which was parallel to the try line until he got to the 5 metre line (from touch) then he went straight for two metres and was tackled. with his winger and OC in the same space. That is crabbing. No forward momentum he was essentially tackled on the gain line.
 

Brumbies Guy

John Solomon (38)
Oblique is just that "slanting, indirect" as defined by the Oxford. The motion is still forward. Look at his run, it was at worst 45 degrees to the try line starting from 15-20 metres out he crossed the line. Contrast to Giteau's run in the same half which was parallel to the try line until he got to the 5 metre line (from touch) then he went straight for two metres and was tackled. with his winger and OC in the same space. That is crabbing. No forward momentum he was essentially tackled on the gain line.

Sorry Gnostic, that just plain wrong. Giteau runs an oblique line, almost identical to Campo's in the 91 RWC semi. He has the ball in two hands and others have made the same mistake as Kirwan did and turned out to him. It is most definitely not a crab.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
Sorry Gnostic, that just plain wrong. Giteau runs an oblique line, almost identical to Campo's in the 91 RWC semi. He has the ball in two hands and others have made the same mistake as Kirwan did and turned out to him. It is most definitely not a crab.

Very clever. Now at least try and offer something constructive if you are able.
 

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
Sorry Gnostic, that just plain wrong. Giteau runs an oblique line, almost identical to Campo's in the 91 RWC semi. He has the ball in two hands and others have made the same mistake as Kirwan did and turned out to him. It is most definitely not a crab.

It was a lobster. A crab with attitude.
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
Maybe it was the Boks game.
In fact it was the Boks game.

Thanks for the reminder - memories of things like that are usually a little cloudy due to the alcohol involved!

Barnes was at ten for that move.
 

Brumbies Guy

John Solomon (38)
Very clever. Now at least try and offer something constructive if you are able.

Sorry Gnostic, I left my geometry set at home. I was just agreeing with Konze that there is no distinction between the two, only perception… which would seem that if it is anyone’s but yours, is plain wrong. As far as constructive, take it as constructive criticism if you will.
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
Yes.
I was merely trying to make a point that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) could run good lines, and angle inside.
Something he could be doing off of Giteau to good effect.

Ah ok. I agree.

It seems Giteau is most effective at 12 when he is cut out :p
 
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Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
Sorry Gnostic, I left my geometry set at home. I was just agreeing with Konze that there is no distinction between the two, only perception… which would seem that if it is anyone’s but yours, is plain wrong. As far as constructive, take it as constructive criticism if you will.

That fine take it any way you want. I

f you do not know what an Oblique, or angled run is as opposed to a crab (which has no forward momentum) you are exposed as an isolated forum poster with no real experience in the game. Did you play in the backs? Have you been a long term student/fan/follower of the game?

If you say you have how do you not know these things? Cooper's line was a classic basic line of attack.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
The difference was that Cooper only had one or two players outside him, he was heading for the space created by Rocky's pass, but he was still trying to set up his outside men (holding it in two hands). Giteau would have probably also scored in that situation, but the defense would have not held off him as much, because they know his first intention is to 'go it himself'.
 

#1 Tah

Chilla Wilson (44)
this may be slightly off topic, but has anyone seen the vid of gits on the aru homepage?

he actually looks like a man with that mo.
 

Bullrush

Geoff Shaw (53)
On a fairly basic level, when you're 'crabbing' across field, you're usually either going to try and beat your man on the outside or create space back on the inside for the guy outside you to cut back or the full-back to hit the line back on the inside of you. You don't really want the guys outside you 'crabbing' across field with you the whole way across. Sometimes you'll crab across looking a flat pass for a crash-runner or something.

I think the difference between Gits and Cooper is that Gits hasn't beaten his man enough times on the outside (or with a step back inside) like Cooper has to really keep the defense honest enough. Maybe he hasn't had the same quality around him as Cooper has recently?!?!

Are those straws I can just feel at my fingertips???
 
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