Force v Waratahs Friday April 13th
- Thread starter Stands
- Start date
- Status
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
It is something that has baffled me since Super rugby started: how is it that a franchise with plenty of player talent and money hasn't managed to win the big one. Even the Blues of Auckland and surrounds has pulled it off three times (I think).
What is more, how is it that a team that perennially has such great backs doesn't use them to their fullest advantage.
Anyway, none of that has anything to do with this weeks game.
What is more, how is it that a team that perennially has such great backs doesn't use them to their fullest advantage.
Anyway, none of that has anything to do with this weeks game.
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
Just to clarify.
JON stated the franchises had the responsibility to play exciting rugby.
The Waratahs are criticized for playing boring rugby.
The Waratahs forward pack has been a greater strength than the backs for many years but the Tahs are boring for playing to there strength.
The force are bad at recruitment therefore killing contestable ball and kicking = smart.
Once again, my point is, perception of expectation Is greater than any actual fact in relation to actual effort of a team.
JON stated the franchises had the responsibility to play exciting rugby.
The Waratahs are criticized for playing boring rugby.
The Waratahs forward pack has been a greater strength than the backs for many years but the Tahs are boring for playing to there strength.
The force are bad at recruitment therefore killing contestable ball and kicking = smart.
Once again, my point is, perception of expectation Is greater than any actual fact in relation to actual effort of a team.
M
Moono75
Guest
A team can underachieve for a number of reasons, one of which can be as a result of playing a conservative brand of rugby which is below the talent level of the team.
A team can be conservative/boring for a number of reasons
(a) they choose to play that way
(b) the team doesn't have an option it just lacks the the talent to play expansivley
(c) the team chooses to play that way against a particular opponent to draw out a tactical advantage
(d) injuries dicatate (see point b)
I for one don't hate the Tahs. I hope they can eventually do a Qld and turn things around. Just not this Friday against the Force.....a team punching above their weight
A team can be conservative/boring for a number of reasons
(a) they choose to play that way
(b) the team doesn't have an option it just lacks the the talent to play expansivley
(c) the team chooses to play that way against a particular opponent to draw out a tactical advantage
(d) injuries dicatate (see point b)
I for one don't hate the Tahs. I hope they can eventually do a Qld and turn things around. Just not this Friday against the Force.....a team punching above their weight
Hawko
Tony Shaw (54)
For the last two years the Force pack has been full of Wallabies and they've been at the bottom of the table. This year in my tipping comp I picked them to come a close second to the Tahs. Silly me. Only worse choice was to tip the Blues to win the NZ conference. The Force are the serial underachievers of the last two years. Last week they let a pack with two internationals get on top of them. By my count the Force have got six or seven. Enough of the Tahs-as-underachievers jibe, the Force should be top of the Australian conference right now playing committed ten man rugby. But they're not.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Both Timanis are on the bench like last time.
G
Gollum
Guest
Would love to see the force win this one, but with the tahs coming off the bye and the memory of their last game with the force sure to be in the back of their minds I think this game is the tahs to lose.
I will be quite happy to eat my words though.
I will be quite happy to eat my words though.
M
Moono75
Guest
Just goes to show you that you need to have a well balanced squad to progress in this comp. Just top forwards or top backs aren't enough, you need a bit of both. I don't think the Force have ever been tipped to finish near the top in any rugby tipping so I don't think you can say they have underachieved. I haven't read any season previews stating that the Force are chock full talent and will challenge for the title. We have a smattering of quality talent but certainly not across the entire team. What you can't fault about the Force is their committment. As for the packs last week. NZ churns out new great talent in the forwards like a factory. You don't need to be an internationally capped forward in NZ to still be considered world class.
Froggy
Nicholas Shehadie (39)
As a newby to the site, it's interesting that all posts are very biased one way or the other.
As a Tahs supporter, I think the Force played very well to their strengths to beat the Tahs last time, the Tahs didn't turn up, and all strength to the Force. And while they are really struggling for quality backs, it has to be said they boast probably more Wallabies in their pack than any other side (Maafu, Cowan, Sharpe, McCalman, Hodgson, Brown, Pocock.
But I do take issue with the suggestion that the Tahs are perrenial under-achievers. They have, over the last ten years, been clearly the best performed Australian side, despite the negative of having not won a title. As to their style of play, last year they were the highest try scoring team in the entire competition, however that would never be recognised by the eternal knockers. By the time they fronted the Blues in the semis, they had 12 of their starting 15 unavailable, plus a selection of second string players.
Looking back, I think one of the big reasons that the Tahs game was too kicking dominated, and sometimes the talent in the backs was unrealised, was the lack of a class 10. I think some people underestimate the importance to your entire game of your 10 (no, I wasn't one) and the Tahs have really struggled to find one. Beale was the great hope, but found his natural position at 15, and I think the jury is out over whether Barnes is the man, particularly given the amount of time he has spent at 12.
As a Tahs supporter, I think the Force played very well to their strengths to beat the Tahs last time, the Tahs didn't turn up, and all strength to the Force. And while they are really struggling for quality backs, it has to be said they boast probably more Wallabies in their pack than any other side (Maafu, Cowan, Sharpe, McCalman, Hodgson, Brown, Pocock.
But I do take issue with the suggestion that the Tahs are perrenial under-achievers. They have, over the last ten years, been clearly the best performed Australian side, despite the negative of having not won a title. As to their style of play, last year they were the highest try scoring team in the entire competition, however that would never be recognised by the eternal knockers. By the time they fronted the Blues in the semis, they had 12 of their starting 15 unavailable, plus a selection of second string players.
Looking back, I think one of the big reasons that the Tahs game was too kicking dominated, and sometimes the talent in the backs was unrealised, was the lack of a class 10. I think some people underestimate the importance to your entire game of your 10 (no, I wasn't one) and the Tahs have really struggled to find one. Beale was the great hope, but found his natural position at 15, and I think the jury is out over whether Barnes is the man, particularly given the amount of time he has spent at 12.
Forcefield
Ken Catchpole (46)
I'm biting at everything today.
You guys are just upset because you think the Force are going to take the Waratahs on and beat them at their own dull game and you are worried it will work. Like we did in Sydney.
You guys shouldn't care if fans of other teams think you are boring. The fact that your own fans are upset with the way you play is the big problem.
Negative game plans where you kick possession away as a first option. Failure to play free flowing, running rugby despite having that as a viable option. In this case under-achieving = boring. For the Tahs fans at least, especially when they lose.
Remind me, was that the same Chiefs outfit that thrashed you guys and your 7 Wallaby forwards and three Wallaby backs the week earlier? We are only marginally behind you on the ladder when you consider you've had a bye to prop yourselves up.
Benn Robinson, Sekope Kepu, TPN, Dan Vickerman, Dean Mumm, Rocky Elsom, Wycliff Palu, Dave Dennis, Sitaleki Timani. Enough said.
Highest scoring team in the entire competition is an interesting card to play. You picked up 7 tries in the opening game against the Rebels. That was always going to be a white wash and should not be included in a try count. I also wonder whether it is the scoring of tries or how tries are scored that really matters. If it was just scoring tries that mattered, why were the Reds almost universally considered the exciting, attacking team of the Australian Super Conference?
Success doesn't always equal interesting rugby. Unless you are the team that's winning. The Springbok's World Cup win in 2007 may have been great for Boks fans, but those semi finals and the final were as boring as bat shit. Last year's RWC final was far more thrilling. I'd also point out that, as a neutral observer, that game against the Rebels last season was boring after the first 15 minutes as it stopped as a competition.
That's a fair enough reason. It is also the same reason the Force are aimless in attack and over kicking at the moment. I don't think it is fair to play that card since you have had Barnes. I fully appreciate his time at the Waratahs has been disrupted by injuries, but he has proven at the Wallabies that he can direct attack- how good was he against Wales in the RWC 3rd place play off?
You guys are just upset because you think the Force are going to take the Waratahs on and beat them at their own dull game and you are worried it will work. Like we did in Sydney.
You guys shouldn't care if fans of other teams think you are boring. The fact that your own fans are upset with the way you play is the big problem.
Negative game plans where you kick possession away as a first option. Failure to play free flowing, running rugby despite having that as a viable option. In this case under-achieving = boring. For the Tahs fans at least, especially when they lose.
Remind me, was that the same Chiefs outfit that thrashed you guys and your 7 Wallaby forwards and three Wallaby backs the week earlier? We are only marginally behind you on the ladder when you consider you've had a bye to prop yourselves up.
Benn Robinson, Sekope Kepu, TPN, Dan Vickerman, Dean Mumm, Rocky Elsom, Wycliff Palu, Dave Dennis, Sitaleki Timani. Enough said.
Highest scoring team in the entire competition is an interesting card to play. You picked up 7 tries in the opening game against the Rebels. That was always going to be a white wash and should not be included in a try count. I also wonder whether it is the scoring of tries or how tries are scored that really matters. If it was just scoring tries that mattered, why were the Reds almost universally considered the exciting, attacking team of the Australian Super Conference?
Success doesn't always equal interesting rugby. Unless you are the team that's winning. The Springbok's World Cup win in 2007 may have been great for Boks fans, but those semi finals and the final were as boring as bat shit. Last year's RWC final was far more thrilling. I'd also point out that, as a neutral observer, that game against the Rebels last season was boring after the first 15 minutes as it stopped as a competition.
That's a fair enough reason. It is also the same reason the Force are aimless in attack and over kicking at the moment. I don't think it is fair to play that card since you have had Barnes. I fully appreciate his time at the Waratahs has been disrupted by injuries, but he has proven at the Wallabies that he can direct attack- how good was he against Wales in the RWC 3rd place play off?
FF (Folau Fainga'a), a few points:
This is just a stereotypical view of the Tahs, with both Tahs fans and outsiders guilty of this IMO. People throw words around like 'free flowing' and 'running rugby' as if it's simply a case of spreading the ball and space will appear to frolick in.
The Tahs problem has not been kicking the ball away as a first option- as that has never been the case. There have been instances where poorly taken kicks have occured, sure, but that is not the problem. It is a lack of enthusiasm and penetration around the ruck which does not commit defenders and thus doesn't free up space for said 'running rugby' to occur.
At the core of the issue is perception. How are the Tahs more boring than the Force, or Reds, or Brumbies? They play a similar game and are achieving similar results. They kept the ball in hand for large chunks of the game against the Chiefs (like the Force and Brumbies) and were just beaten (like the Force and Brumbies). They beat the Sharks playing great footy. They have had bad games (like the Reds, Brumbies and Force) where they have bored the pants off people. That happens.
They were hardly thrashed, and the counter-argument for under-achieving should not be 'Well you are doing just as bad as us!'.
.
This is just a stereotypical view of the Tahs, with both Tahs fans and outsiders guilty of this IMO. People throw words around like 'free flowing' and 'running rugby' as if it's simply a case of spreading the ball and space will appear to frolick in.
The Tahs problem has not been kicking the ball away as a first option- as that has never been the case. There have been instances where poorly taken kicks have occured, sure, but that is not the problem. It is a lack of enthusiasm and penetration around the ruck which does not commit defenders and thus doesn't free up space for said 'running rugby' to occur.
At the core of the issue is perception. How are the Tahs more boring than the Force, or Reds, or Brumbies? They play a similar game and are achieving similar results. They kept the ball in hand for large chunks of the game against the Chiefs (like the Force and Brumbies) and were just beaten (like the Force and Brumbies). They beat the Sharks playing great footy. They have had bad games (like the Reds, Brumbies and Force) where they have bored the pants off people. That happens.
They were hardly thrashed, and the counter-argument for under-achieving should not be 'Well you are doing just as bad as us!'.
.
Forcefield
Ken Catchpole (46)
Yeah I may have gone a bit overboard on the counter-fishing.
I actually don't mind the Waratahs. That game last season in Sydney was bloody dull. And lets face it that is what all this arguing over boring rugby is about. But believe me, for Force fans, that game was a lot better than when you smashed us 31-3 a few weeks earlier.
I actually don't mind the Waratahs. That game last season in Sydney was bloody dull. And lets face it that is what all this arguing over boring rugby is about. But believe me, for Force fans, that game was a lot better than when you smashed us 31-3 a few weeks earlier.
M
Moono75
Guest
I just hope we beat (thrash, cane, obliterate) the Tahs full stop. I'm sure both sides will be up for the contest.
brokendown
Bill McLean (32)
I'm worried that on a Wednesday evening,the force side is yet to be announced.This delay in the past has usually indicated injury concerns
I hope this is not the reason this time
I hope this is not the reason this time
GaffaCHinO
Peter Sullivan (51)
they always announce the team on thurs morning even if they are playing in a Friday night not sure why but I wouldn't be worried
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
M
Moono75
Guest
I hear Shepherd has a severe paper cut and may miss
FiveStarStu
Bill McLean (32)
Rebels > Force (Round 5)
Force > Waratahs (Round 4)
.:
Rebels > Waratahs
*throws line out, figures everyone's biting anyway*
Force > Waratahs (Round 4)
.:
Rebels > Waratahs
*throws line out, figures everyone's biting anyway*
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
I don't understand, u missed
Waratahs > rebels (round 2)
And also
Waratahs > rebels (next week)
MrMouse
Bob Loudon (25)
Gotta say, this thread is making me mad left, right and centre. To be honest, I'm sick of this kind of baiting. Perhaps I need a drink or some quiet time but ffs stop acting like a bunch of pricks and play nice. It'd be unfair to pick just one person or one team, it's just shitting me. /rant
Oh ok, Forcefield you get a special mention.
Oh ok, Forcefield you get a special mention.
- Status