Exit from Super Rugby?

[Braveheart81]

What's the worst thing that can happen?

The ARU go insolvent leading to a total clean out of the current regime and a new start? Because that's where we're heading anyway. While it sounds pretty bad it was the best thing to ever happen to Australian soccer.

Soccer Australia was restructured into the Australian Soccer Association and later had the name changed to Football Federation Australia.

At no point did they become insolvent.

I think if the ARU went insolvent, all five Super Rugby franchises would be at serious risk of folding almost immediately and there would be a mass exodus of players overseas and to the NRL. Basically anywhere they could get a paid gig.

It would have the potential to set the game back at least a decade in Australia.

 

[TahDan]

I support Man Utd because my family is historically from there (still have family there), and one of my cousins played reserves there for two years when I was little. He sent me a jersey and I've supported them ever since.

I reckon that still comes down to a question of identity though... In what way do you feel like an Englishman from Manchester? Do you support the English Rugby team against teams like Ireland and Wales too?

My mother is from Sweden and I have a tonne of family there that I love and have plenty of contact with, but I don't particularly care for Swedish soccer or hockey, because it's all still far too remote from me.

At the end of the day, I'm just not a Swede - I'm an Australian, so I'd just feel disingenuous to start getting all psyched to watch Sweden play a game of soccer or something.

 

[Braveheart81]

I reckon that still comes down to a question of identity though. In what way do you feel like an Englishman from Manchester? Do you support the English Rugby team against teams like Ireland and Wales too?

My mother is from Sweden and I have a tonne of family there that I love and have plenty of contact with, but I don't particularly care for Swedish soccer or hockey, because it's all still far too remote from me.

At the end of the day, I'm just not a Swede - I'm an Australian, so I'd just feel disingenuous to start getting all psyched to watch Sweden play a game of soccer or something.

Of course it has a lot to do with what you identify with.

Why would someone who follows Manchester United follow other English teams? It doesn't really follow. They identify with being a Manchester United fan, not an Englishman or a fan of English sport. As people have said, these are global brands in terms of the sporting landscape.

I'm an Arsenal supporter and watch most of their games on TV. I don't follow any English national team though and don't see why I would.

I also follow American sport and have a favourite team in each league I follow. The only thing I'm identifying with is that team, not the country or even the city it is based in.

Globalisation has made it pretty easy to follow major sporting leagues around the world. People are generally identifying with teams, not with the country or the location.

 

[TahDan]

Of course it has a lot to do with what you identify with.

Why would someone who follows Manchester United follow other English teams? It doesn't really follow. They identify with being a Manchester United fan, not an Englishman or a fan of English sport. As people have said, these are global brands in terms of the sporting landscape.

I'm an Arsenal supporter and watch most of their games on TV. I don't follow any English national team though and don't see why I would.

I also follow American sport and have a favourite team in each league I follow. The only thing I'm identifying with is that team, not the country or even the city it is based in.

Globalisation has made it pretty easy to follow major sporting leagues around the world. People are generally identifying with teams, not with the country or the location.

This is a perfect example of cognitive dissonance in my view. If the clubs don't represent the regions that they... errr .. 'represent', then what exactly do they represent other than the colours they wear?

I'd never follow an EPL side in a blue fit because ultimately I'd never support anything English in sport, and the EPL and all its clubs are as manifestly English as the English Rugby team.

Having a Russian billionaire doesn't change that anymore than having 2 players from each country around the world makes the English cricket team any less 'English'.

Yes, the globalisation of sport allows you much more access to this stuff, but I still roll my eyes when I hear other Aussies talk about what "die-hard" Arsenal/Liverpool/Man-U fans they are (curiously few say they're big fans of the other 30 permanent 'also-rans' that make up the numbers though).

I like the NFL and watch it when it's on, but I don't consider myself a "fan" of any particular team in any real sense - not to the point where I'd go and buy a jersey anyway.

To me, it reminds me an awful lot of people who wear expensive labels to the point where they look like a walking billboard. It's great business if you can get their cash, but those consumers always seem so shallow.

 

[Blue]

NZRU haven't said anything, but a few unions have stated they are interested - most notably Hawkes Bay, Taranaki and North Harbour. However two or more unions would need to be involved for it be to be successful, hence why I stated that a Central North Island Team should be established.

I think the biggest problem with South Africa having another team is lack of balanced talent between franchises. If another South African team is to be successful they should implement an annual draft for excess players at certain provinces to even out the talent, instead of all the players going to the Bulls, Sharks and Stormers. Sometimes the Lions and Cheetahs seem like feeder teams to those 'major' franchises. Australia seems to have sorted out its player balance now which is why we are seeing such an even conference.

Nobody except SARU and the Kings wants another team and I mean nobody.

SARU is an immensely dysfunctional organisation which has made petty infighting into an art form.

There is no logic to wanting another team other than putting out internal political fires and because of favours owed.

The franchises themselves are cesspools of politics and often they cannot see eye to eye. The Bulls tried to get two opensides from feeder Unions who told them to piss off. So they end up playing a very average number 8 at open side when they could be giving tow excellent young players a chance and compete better as a team.

New Zealand appears to have enough unity to say this is how we want to run contracting, and we are happy with the teams we have. SA is on the other end of the scale. There will always be some new fluffybunny with an agenda who stirs up support with enough disenfranchised parties to cause shit.

It's an irreparable fuckup of gargantuan proportions.

We are starting to see the fruits of SARU and it's Unions labour. The Super team are not performing, there is no depth, and players are leaving in a steady stream.

The dysfunctionality in the Stormers / WP setup is epic. That organisations is sick to the core. That this coach can still have a job when he has been shown time and time again to be stuck in a defensively minded time warp is astounding. NOWHERE else in ANY sport would I guy like that keep his job.

Now they bring in a director of rugby but he is not allowed to do anything until next year

 

[Braveheart81]

This is a perfect example of cognitive dissonance in my view. If the clubs don't represent the regions that they. errr .. 'represent', then what exactly do they represent other than the colours they wear?

I'd never follow an EPL side in a blue fit because ultimately I'd never support anything English in sport, and the EPL and all its clubs are as manifestly English as the English Rugby team.

Having a Russian billionaire doesn't change that anymore than having 2 players from each country around the world makes the English cricket team any less 'English'.

Yes, the globalisation of sport allows you much more access to this stuff, but I still roll my eyes when I hear other Aussies talk about what "die-hard" Arsenal/Liverpool/Man-U fans they are (curiously few say they're big fans of the other 30 permanent 'also-rans' that make up the numbers though).

I like the NFL and watch it when it's on, but I don't consider myself a "fan" of any particular team in any real sense - not to the point where I'd go and buy a jersey anyway.

To me, it reminds me an awful lot of people who wear expensive labels to the point where they look like a walking billboard. It's great business if you can get their cash, but those consumers always seem so shallow.

The English Premier League is one of the top leagues in the world and features many of the world's best players.

The team I support, Arsenal has between 1 and 3 English players in their regular team. They are a team in an English league, but it is hardly akin to supporting the English national team in any sport.

I don't own an Arsenal jersey nor do I own any American sporting gear despite following teams in those leagues. I guess if I wore supporter gear at times other than when I attend live sport I probably would buy some.

I think your views are very archaic and aren't supported by the majority of society who don't share the view that you have to be a local to support something.

 

[TahDan]

The English Premier League is one of the top leagues in the world and features many of the world's best players.

The team I support, Arsenal has between 1 and 3 English players in their regular team. They are a team in an English league, but it is hardly akin to supporting the English national team in any sport.

I don't own an Arsenal jersey nor do I own any American sporting gear despite following teams in those leagues. I guess if I wore supporter gear at times other than when I attend live sport I probably would buy some.

I think your views are very archaic and aren't supported by the majority of society who don't share the view that you have to be a local to support something.

There's nothing archaic about pointing out that the comp is still an English league with teams representing English towns at the end of the day and that most of the fan base from outside England are just bandwagoners wanting to follow something rich and successful.

It's simply a fact. There are the odd people who genuinely have a connection to these clubs, but most are just bandwagoners, and it's as simple as that.

You can try and diminish this fact by saying it's all globalization and blah blah blah, but it's really no different to the success of showy brands like Louis Vitton in Asia; it's all about the look. Great for business, but there's zero substance.

 

[Braveheart81]

There's nothing archaic about pointing out that the comp is still an English league with teams representing English towns at the end of the day and that most of the fan base from outside England are just bandwagoners wanting to follow something rich and successful.

It's simply a fact. There are the odd people who genuinely have a connection to these clubs, but most are just bandwagoners, and it's as simple as that.

You can try and diminish this fact by saying it's all globalization and blah blah blah, but it's really no different to the success of showy brands like Louis Vitton in Asia; it's all about the look. Great for business, but there's zero substance.

This is precisely the attitude that gives outsiders the view that rugby union is elitist and non-inclusive.

That somehow if you don't have a genuine connection with the club, you must be a bandwagoner and your support is of zero substance.

 

[TahDan]

This is precisely the attitude that gives outsiders the view that rugby union is elitist and non-inclusive.

That somehow if you don't have a genuine connection with the club, you must be a bandwagoner and your support is of zero substance.

Haha yeah well, as someone from a Rugby League background (former Souths junior before moving to union) I wouldn't exactly call myself an elitist...

Frankly, I think you need to look up the meaning of the word if you think labeling people in Australia, who have nothing to do with anything in England beyond the Union Jack on our flag supporting the top 4 EPL teams, bandwagoners.

Seriously mate, I'm hardly alone on this. A lot of people reckon it's a wank when you see randoms Aussies wearing these EPL jerseys precisely for the reasons I've stated.

 

[Pfitzy]

Haha yeah well, as someone from a Rugby League background (former Souths junior before moving to union) I wouldn't exactly call myself an elitist.

Frankly, I think you need to look up the meaning of the word if you think labeling people in Australia, who have nothing to do with anything in England beyond the Union Jack on our flag supporting the top 4 EPL teams, bandwagoners.

Seriously mate, I'm hardly alone on this. A lot of people reckon it's a wank we you see ransoms Aussies wearing these EPL jerseys precisely for the reasons I've stated.

This. I like this.

There is a guy at work who supports Warrington Wolves - I'll have to ask him why some day.

 

[TahDan]

This. I like this.

There is a guy at work who supports Warrington Wolves - I'll have to ask him why some day.

Wow... now THAT is random. That's finding an Englishman in London who supports the Melbourne Demons in the AFL.

 

[Blue]

This. I like this

You two party-pooping miserable flaptwats should get a room.

(I do to a small extent agree once they refer to Chelsea or Man Utd as "us" - I know a few people who do that.)

I actually think its worse if you wear something totally random like the Tucuman Titgrabbers, a team you have never seen and never will. Wtf is that? That's more poser I reckon. "Look at me I'm so like, global and travelled."

If it makes you happy do it as long as you hurt nobody or don't expect me to do so either.

I've got an Italy football sweater which I bought when I was cold one day and the only other option was an orange Dutch sweater (clashed badly with mu complexion and would eriously have cramped my style). It's full of marinara stains and the sleeves have gone a bit brown. The cat likes to sleep on it. Is that okay?

 

[TahDan]

You two party-pooping miserable flaptwats should get a room.

(I do to a small extent agree once they refer to Chelsea or Man Utd as "us" - I know a few people who do that.)

I actually think its worse if you wear something totally random like the Tucuman Titgrabbers, a team you have never seen and never will. Wtf is that? That's more poser I reckon. "Look at me I'm so like, global and travelled."

To be honest, that's kind of how I feel about a lot of Aussie soccer fans... most are fine and genuinely just love the game, but the Craig Foster impersonators out there just $#!t me to tears... always demanding everyone call their game "football" instead of soccer (like that makes sense in Australia) and going on about how being a fan of 'the world game' has opened them up to so many cultures.

Meanwhile barely any of them speak a second language or actually know d*** about half the countries they talk about. Oh, and they all seem to love wearing their top 4 EPL jersey every chance they get too.

I've got an Italy football sweater which I bought when I was cold one day and the only other option was an orange Dutch sweater (clashed badly with mu complexion and would seriously have cramped my style). It's full of marinara stains and the sleeves have gone a bit brown. The cat likes to sleep on it. Is that okay?

No, you must hand it in for incineration immediately .

In all seriousness though, that's really not the type of thing I'm talking about..

 

[Braveheart81]

Well, here are the plans for Super 18.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...-plans-20140430-zr1xu.html?rand=1398837246989

15 game regular season in four pools (not all with the same number of teams).

Australian teams would play 6 derby games, 5 games against NZ sides and 4 games against one South African pool (which is mooted to be 6 SA teams, 1 Argentinian team and hopefully 1 Asian team making up two pools of 4 teams).

 

[TahDan]

That's actually a decent compromise they've come up with - keeping most of the derbies and getting more games against the Kiwis.

Still, I don't really support an expansion of the competition to be honest - I think the current structure has a bit of symmetry. In an ideal world, you'd have 5 Argentinian teams (again, the operative word being "ideal"), and have them in a pool with South Africa, while Australia and NZ would have their own pool.

The question now is what will it be worth in the eyes of our broadcasters?

 

[Pfitzy]

Pools is better. You can argue against a "weak" pool upsetting the apple cart, but we're getting that at varying degrees from the current Super system.

 

[qwerty51]

Asia in SA's pool? Did Bill do geography?

 

[rugbysmartarse]

couldn't we have dropped an asian team into the AUS conference and an Argo team in the Kiwi conference, and kept 3 conferences of 6, running pretty much as it currently is? Is it a requirement to make the competition more complicated? Is this to keep the rabble from understanding the game and becoming interested?

 

[Braveheart81]

Having pools with different numbers of teams and aligning the Asian team with South Africa seems crazy.

The most sensible plan under an 18 team competition would seemingly be a single round, round robin. The whole pools thing so Australia can get more derby games seems to make the whole idea a mess.

With a 15 game regular season, I wonder if the finals would be expanded by a week or more compared to the current system?

If not, is the professional rugby season going to be 3 weeks shorter? I'd be guessing most players would prefer more revenue and 3 extra weeks.

 

[Slim 293]

I'm not sure I like the idea of cutting the number of local derbies, and obviously the Australian teams aren't too fond of it either.........