Cooper - Larkham 2.0?

[DPK]

I just rewatched this absolute gem http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WREmrQ6WC-Q

Looking for some purely visual similarities between Bernie and QC (Quade Cooper), I noted:

• Long passing game, utilising the "passing-for, not to" theory
• Nimbleness and ability to beat multiple defenders one on one
• Accurate tactical kicking game

Two things I thought upon noticing these similarities:

1. How can the current administration (including the coaching staff) aid Coopers individual progress and development?
   
   
2. What would be the ideal backline elements (characters) using the blueprint of the backlines Larkham was most effective in?

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Bloody hell that's a great video. If Cooper is anywhere near as good as that man, we'll have a lot to cheer about in the next few years. It's very easy to forget how good Bernie was in his pomp. What a player. We were very lucky to have him.

 

[Gnostic]

Notice also every break has at least two players coming from depth in support. No players got the ball flat footed.

How about it Deans?

As for the backline with Cooper, A direct centre like Herbert, Mortlock (out of what we have Horne can do it, Chambers, Ioane or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)) with a second runner at 12 (Horan, Grey). It is at 12 we have the problem and with no matches for either of those we have. I have lost faith with Giteau and would drop him to the bench and start Barnes who is solid and reliable. Leave the play making to Cooper and have the solid foil beside him. A. Fainga'a needs to learn not to charge up for the big hit, I still say his technique and decision making need improvement before he is ready again. However if it is a choice between him and Giteau starting I would choose Finger. Giteau will just cramp Cooper trying to be the play maker.

 

[Moses]

Who made that video? It's got our logo's, but is posted under an SARugby11 account..

 

[cyclopath]

There was a try he scored, against Scotland I think, early in his career where he stepped through about 8 or 9 players coming from the wing - just freakish footwork. Never been able to find footage of it though.
Back OT - Cooper has all the right attributes, but maybe not the defence (Bernie was a pretty good defender), but there is time.
Look at Larkhams "assets" playing with him:- Genia could easily be like Gregan in his pomp, he needs a hard running 12 that can distribute too, a big 13 like Herbert or Morty that can do direct damage and / or change the angle of attack, and a 15 who injects himself in the Burke or Latham mould in attack.
At the moment we lack the 12, but Giteau certainly played well off him, and could do it.
I think Chambers has the best potential to be the 13.
I think Beale would be the most dangerous attacking 15 to play off Cooper - remember this thread is about a particular issue, not who the best all round 15 is in Aust.
Add Ioane and Mitchell on the wings and I would be pretty happy.

 

[Gagger]

Who made that video? It's got our logo's, but is posted under an SARugby11 account..

That's Austins account.

 

[H...]

whether they be speedsters or hard men, we need centres that can run straight to complement a cooper / larkham style 10. Excuses for people running sideways have to stop.

 

[daz]

Apart from the thrill of watching Bernie and Co play some awesome rugby in the "good old days", (and I never get tired of that), the overwhelming feeling is one of depression.

Someone please tell me we are going to win a RWC/Tri's/Bledisloe again one day..!!!

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

The similarities are certainly there, especially the long flat passes, as well as tacking the ball to the advantage line and stepping through the defence. I honestly think we can get this again with the Genia/Cooper partnership (playing at the same S15 team, just like George and Bernie did), but as others have pointed out we need direct running at 13 and a dangerous runner from 15 coming from a different angle. One of of AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) or Horne could get us that at outside centre, but fullback is a more difficult proposition. With Shep being injured again, there isn't a ready made contender. We should give Kurtley more of a shot at it though.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Boys boys. Comparing larkham to Cooper is just silly. Stephen larkham is still in my top 5 players to touch a rugby ball. Bearing in mind I'm an ab fan, I have nomproblemmin stating he's the best 10 I have ever see.

The first time I saw him play, I knew he was going to cause us utter strife for years.

QC (Quade Cooper) has talent and potential, but he worries me nothing compared to Bernie.

But i think very few players, if any, will.

 

[Scott Allen]

Yep, that's my Larkham video posted in that account before I had access to the G&GR account.

I've been asking the same question of myself as DPK did in 2. above for the last week. I decided to look back at what the Wallaby backlines over the last 30 years looked like. I started at backlines with Mark Ella at #10, then Michael Lynagh, then Larkham. Then I compared them to the backlines with Giteau at #10 and Cooper.

Obviously the game has changed over that period with much better defence, lifting in the lineout providing the opportunity for much cleaner and faster ball for the lineouts and now defenders further back at a scrum but I've looked at depth of the attacking line, alignment, passing, support runners and what moves they used. The most obvious thing to me is the passing to where the ball receiver will be - this is a common trait of the Wallaby backlines that have performed so well in the past - Larkham was really good at it and so is Cooper.

The other thing that really stood out was how basic the Wallabies backline attack has become since Larkham retired, even with Cooper at #10 - they are just shuffling the ball across the line with very few variations except for an inside runner. Then again, that started at the 2007 World Cup, even with Larkham playing in the early games.

I'll be posting an article on the blog next week highlighting some of these points but as I was watching all the footage I also kept it. If you liked the Larkham video, you'll probably like tomorrow's video I'll post on the blog - "A Short History of the Wallaby Backline 1979-2010". Although with so much footage I'll probably break it up into a series of videos.

 

[rhyso]

The most obvious thing to me is the passing to where the ball receiver will be - this is a common trait of the Wallaby backlines that have performed so well in the past - Larkham was really good at it and so is Cooper.

Absolutely. Many of those highlights feature Gregan passing into a space which Larkham runs into, Larkham passing into space again, etc. Making this work partly depends on combinations, which we don't quite have yet, and it's obviously easier with set moves, which we don't use as much these days. I really hope we can get back to this style of play though because it's awesome to watch.

Had Larkham grown up in Canada I reckon he would have dominated ice hockey. So good with angles, anticipation and timing, and no fear of the physical stuff.

Cheers to DPK for the vid, great to watch.

 

[cyclopath]

Boys boys. Comparing larkham to Cooper is just silly. Stephen larkham is still in my top 5 players to touch a rugby ball. Bearing in mind I'm an ab fan, I have nomproblemmin stating he's the best 10 I have ever see.

The first time I saw him play, I knew he was going to cause us utter strife for years.

QC (Quade Cooper) has talent and potential, but he worries me nothing compared to Bernie.

But i think very few players, if any, will.

It isn't comparing him directly to Larkham, it is noting some similarities in their strengths - long pass, footwork, tactical kicking, and asking what can be done to bring them on - what players around him are important, what coaches need to do to help etc...
No-one is saying they are on level footing. Cooper is still very young, and could be a very good player yet.

 

[RugbyReg]

having an experienced inside centre (aka a legend) outside him helped I reckon. He also generally had a 12 who liked to take the ball to the line, ala Horan, Grey and Little even Flats. Not that Bernie didn't mind taking on the opposition himself, but it helped to draw in the defenders allowing more bang from the wide pass. Gits drifting wide doesn't have the same effect.

 

[RedsHappy]

I just rewatched this absolute gem....What would be the ideal backline elements (characters) using the blueprint of the backlines Larkham was most effective in....

DPK - may I say - all credit to you, this seems to me a model way to initiate a thread of interest.

 

[DPK]

DPK - may I say - all credit to you, this seems to me a model way to initiate a thread of interest.

Thanks RH, there are a few videos floating around on YT that I have been pondering, so keep your eyes peeled for a few more threads like this one in the coming weeks.

Also, BIG thanks to Austin by the way, for that video; most of that footage isn't in any other videos on YT.

 

[RedsHappy]

I've been asking the same question of myself as DPK did in 2. above for the last week. ....I'll be posting an article on the blog next week highlighting some of these points but as I was watching all the footage I also kept it. If you liked the Larkham video, you'll probably like tomorrow's video I'll post on the blog - "A Short History of the Wallaby Backline 1979-2010". Although with so much footage I'll probably break it up into a series of videos.

Great! Knowing the calibre your work, I'm looking forward to it already.

But please do mention - somewhere - the 'c' word. You are far more expert than me, but the matters of back line (and general) coaching in the recent periods cannot be avoided in assessing the parlous state into which Wallaby back line play has deteriorated. Let us recall that talented, consistent, innovative, 'smart' back line play was once the evergreen hallmark of of Australian rugby, and it often compensated (just) for the consistent weaknesses we have had in forwards and breakdown play quality. 'The thinking man's back line'! was a very fine thing in our game in this country. It has all but been destroyed in recent periods and such is unquestionably contributing to our current low-calibre play styles.

I am convinced that knowledgeable, meticulous and shrewd coaching has a major role to play in taking a talented back line and giving it orchestration, innovation and repeatable, game-breaking skills. Whatever, IMO our current back line will not be easily revived to prior Australian standards (or better) unless appropriate coaching is urgently introduced. The current back line coaching regime is a manifest failure.

 

[Ruggo]

What would be the harm in bringing Bernie into Wallaby camp for a while as a consultant? This is not to insult Deans but he could also get some insight into the great Wallaby backlines of the last 15 years or so and incorporate it into his own vision.

 

[RedsHappy]

What would be the harm in bringing Bernie into Wallaby camp for a while as a consultant? This is not to insult Deans but he could also get some insight into the great Wallaby backlines of the last 15 years or so and incorporate it into his own vision.

Ruggo, i don't know how Bernie would be as coach, but the direction of your thinking is 100% right. We urgently need deep expertise that is steeped in the best Aussie traditions of back line play, and can take those traditions and further improve them for 2010 + Test conditions.

Gaffney and Mooney (not a good general coach, but IMO could be an excellent back line talent developer and coach) could be relevant candidates, potentially. And I would not rule out Campo, or Ella. Or maybe some combination of them as support and technical advisers to the right full-time coach.

Graham is a 7s player, and all his coaching was NH. Never was the right coaching cattle IMO (and btw, I would predict that the Force has made a serious blunder in appointing him, someone of much higher calibre was needed to pull the Force away from the mediocre middle).

 

[Muttonbird]

At 30 secs Bernie runs into his own man - the Number 8 (don't know who it was). Under Rule 11.6, said Number 8 is accidentally offside and IMO the Wallabies did gain advantage from it - therefore should have been scrum Black. So you'd only have to assume, if you can believe it, refs were favouring the Wallabies back then.