Brumbies Halfback

[louie]

who would you pick?

 

[Spook]

Probably Holmes - only because he has potential. Phibbs isn't going to get better. Stannard did ok for the Force last year.

 

[fatprop]

* Strong mail that as part of the Australian halfback merry-go-round, on which the Force's Josh Valentine goes to the Brumbies and the Waratahs' Brett Sheehan to the Force, Brumbies halfback Josh Holmes is on his way back to NSW.

http://www.rugbyheaven.com.au/news/...n-option/2009/05/07/1241289317359.html?page=2

Not very pleased with this, I don't rate holmes or any other poof 9 who is afraid of contact.

 

[Spook]

Here is FP the broken record. :-\ You must DESPISE Beale then but I know you rate him. Hypocrisy and provincialism?.. Absolutely

Moving right along, here is something written by Brett Harris on the matter:

Even if Holmes is let go by the Brumbies, he is still regarded as a chance to make the 30-man Wallabies squad.

Holmes, 22, has been looked at as a future Wallaby since he made his Super 14 debut for the NSW Waratahs against the Brumbies in 2007.

An outstanding attacking halfback, Holmes's problems are his defence and lack of physicality.

Nevertheless, Wallabies coach Robbie Deans has lamented the lack of depth in Australia's halfback ranks behind Test No9 Luke Burgess, particularly now the Queensland Reds' Will Genia is sidelined.

Deans would see it as a challenge to unlock Holmes's undoubted potential and Friend may adopt the same attitude towards him.

Pretty spot on although I'm not sure Friend will persist with Holmes.

 

[fatprop]

You must not rate Beale then . Not a 9 but is afraid contact.

: rubbish

Beale isn't a great defender but at least puts himself in position to be a speed bump and Beale will dive on a ball and get smashed protecting it as in last weeks game.

Holmes will try to pick it up one handed or point at someone else to do the tackle.

 

[Spook]

You must not rate Beale then . Not a 9 but is afraid contact.

: rubbish

Beale isn't a great defender but at least puts himself in position to be a speed bump and Beale will dive on a ball and get smashed protecting it as in last weeks game.

Holmes will try to pick it up one handed or point at someone else to do the tackle.

:lmao: My point is made!

The reason Beale is a speed bump (the few times he reaches the opposition player) is that he is completely tentative and half-committed. Fortunately I think Beale and Holmes will end up being solid in defense but I do enjoy your illogical statements. Keep em coming!


If I'm reading these stats correctly, Beale made 1 tackle last weekend at inside centre and missed 2. That's a joke. He missed 52% of his tackles this season. Holmes has missed 41% which is also poor but Beale is clearly hidden in defense. I've never seen a 12 with stats like that from a game - made 1, missed 2. Fark.

 

[fatprop]

:-\ I think you are confusing skill at contact and the aversion to contact. Being tentative and half hearted (and apparently lacking in technique) is different from keeping away from contact.

and Beale played only 20 minutes at 12 last week. He moved to 15 when Lote went off with Carter moving to 12.

 

[steiner]

Well Josh didn't hang around long at the Waratahs when he was third choice halfback. For the same reason he may well return there. Obviously an ambitious person, it is that ambition which may well lead him to overcome his faults and become a good half, even though Fatprop's criticisms are accurate at present, and he plays as though he has pulled a few cones before the match. He's still only young of course, and plenty of time to improve.
Ironically Holmes may be better suited to test rugby without the ELV's which won't be such a scrambling game.

His potential as a halfback aside one of the reasons why I'd be happy to see him back in blue is that even if he doesn't succeed as a 9, he can fill in adequately in other positions. Arguably he could play anywhere in the backline if he had a bit of practice there. He has some exceptional abilities for a young player. Great instinsts in support play, as people often mention, but also a great ability to offload a good ball under pressure in attacking situations. These abilities would serve him well in any position. His defence is still not great but it's on the improve.

 

[Grandmaster Flash]

Holmes and Stannard cut - http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=811616

The Brumbies have cut Wallabies hopeful Josh Holmes and fellow halfback James Stannard from their 2010 playing roster.

The club ended a week of speculation about which two of its three halfbacks would be cut by announcing on Friday that Patrick Phibbs had been offered a one-year deal.

 

[Spook]

Friend goes for the solid Phibbs - no surprises. How is Holmes going to dislodge Burgess? :nta:

 

[Lindommer]

The music stops,..............and Holmes returns to the Tahs for the next two years.

PATRICK Phibbs will stay at the Brumbies for another year, but doubt has been cast on whether he was coach Andy Friend's first choice as new recruit Josh Valentine's back-up halfback next year.

Friend had to release two of his three halfbacks -- Phibbs, Josh Holmes and James Stannard -- to make way for the arrival of Valentine from Western Force. As reported exclusively on The Australian website yesterday, the Brumbies have granted Phibbs a one-year extension and Holmes has signed a two-year deal with NSW Waratahs with whom he began his Super rugby career in 2007. Friend was adamant he chose to keep Phibbs ahead of Holmes and Stannard, but there was speculation Holmes rejected an offer from the Brumbies. "It was a difficult process," Friend said. "They are three quality players and people. Looking at what's best for the Brumbies in 2010, we felt Patrick had a better game sense and could control a game better. I see real potential in Josh Holmes. Josh's family and his partner are in Sydney. I'm sure he will be on the radar for the Waratahs."

An informed source told The Weekend Australian that Holmes rejected an offer of a further two years from the Brumbies to go back to Sydney for less money than he would have received in Canberra, leaving Friend with a choice between Phibbs and Stannard, who is now looking to continue his career in South Africa's Currie Cup. Holmes believed he would be consigned to a back-up role behind Valentine, who has developed a good combination with the Brumbies five-eighth recruit Matt Giteau at the Force. A potential Wallabies candidate, Holmes preferred to take his chances competing against Test halfback Luke Burgess at the Waratahs following Brett Sheehan's decision to go to the Force to replace Valentine.

Friend denied the speculation that Holmes had already decided to leave the Brumbies before he made his own decision on the halfback situation. "That wouldn't be true," Friend said. "It was not an easy decision." Another source supported Friend's version of events by saying the Waratahs had been negotiating with both Phibbs and Holmes and were looking to recruit whoever was cut by the Brumbies. But Waratahs chief executive Jim L'Estrange denied NSW had spoken to Phibbs. "We haven't got the halfback they don't want. We've got the halfback we want," L'Estrange said.

The Brumbies were clearly keeping their long-term options open by offering Phibbs only a one-year extension. And with Giteau's ability to cover halfback, Phibbs will have to compete for a place in the Brumbies' 22-man squad. "At Patrick's age (27) he would prefer to keep his options open as well if he is not getting an opportunity next year," Friend said. "We are looking at a five/two split (between forwards and backs) on the bench next year because Matt Giteau can play halfback. We'll see how Patrick develops as a player and a person, and if he is offering a lot to the organisation, we will look to extend his contract." Phibbs is close to several Brumbies players, including captain and number eight Stephen Hoiles.

While Friend did not consult any of the players on the halfback question, he hinted it was a popular decision. "When you work with players you understand their mood swings and you get a feel for what's inside their heads," Friend said. "But it was a decision reached by the coaches." One indication that Phibbs was the preferred halfback in Canberra was the fact that he will start ahead of Holmes in the Brumbies' important match with the Blues at Canberra Stadium tonight. The seventh-placed Brumbies must beat the Blues to remain in contention for the play-offs. "There will be a lot of energy and a lot of desire out there," Friend said. "It will be a tough game."

 

[Scarfman]

I was trying to figure out why you cut Stannard and keep Phibbs, and the first thing I thought was - he must be popular with the team. Then I read ...

While Friend did not consult any of the players on the halfback question, he hinted it was a popular decision. "When you work with players you understand their mood swings and you get a feel for what's inside their heads," Friend said. "But it was a decision reached by the coaches." One indication that Phibbs was the preferred halfback in Canberra was the fact that he will start ahead of Holmes in the Brumbies' important match with the Blues at Canberra Stadium tonight."

I (and 3 others in the poll) rate Stannard.

So, we now have:

Brums:
Valentine
Phibbs

Tahs:
Burgess
Holmes

Force:
A. Dwarf
O'Young

Reds:
Genia
Lucas

Not picked:
Stannard

I think Burgess + Holmes is an odd combination. But I suppose it gives you two very different sorts of tricks in the box.

 

[fatprop]

The four best 9s in aus will be starting so all is good with the world

 

[Lindommer]

I was thinking the same thing myself, fp. Halfback's one position where all the main candidates now have a starting gig and every team with a competent backup.

Now what can we do about five-eighths?

 

[disco]

I'm surprised that the Brumbies didn't make an offer for McKibbon from the Reds, he's still young & has been impressive when ever asked to step up this year.

 

[fatprop]

I think Burgess + Holmes is an odd combination. But I suppose it gives you two very different sorts of tricks in the box.

To me it says the Tahs will be more focussed on the fling it wide stuff.

We haven't brought defenders in Mitchell and Holmes, but we do require a real backs coach.

 

[RugbyReg]

I thought Genia was off contract this year. Clearly not or he would be featuring in discussions here.

 

[Lee Grant]

Agree with most that it's probably win/win/win/win and let us not forget the availability of McKibbin for the Reds and Sua for the Tahs. They are both fine players and I rate them higher than Stannard. Others will disagree and that's fine.

It is a great pity that Genia got himself suspended for 4 weeks and is currently injured. Otherwise he could have shown enough to be a smokey for 3rd string scrummie in the Wallaby squad.

There is no reason not to believe Friend when he said he preferred Phibbs above Holmes; neither is there a reason to disbelieve the NSW alickadoo when he said they were after Holmes, not Phibbs. Different strokes.

The time is running out for Holmes. He is not the young gun with all the talents anymore. With Holmes, the Tahs coaching staff should have him doing drills to help him release the ball early. A couple of months should do it.

If clearance from a ruck or scrum was an element in American Football and Holmes was a player, an NFL assistant coach would have the stopwatch on him at training, week after week. They would make sure his right foot was opposite the ball early when passing left; they would have a daily log of accuracy stats relating to meeting the target with the pass - both ways; they would have him trained in standup passing and they would have him doing 20 other different skills pertinent to his job.

And if his pass to the left was better they would spend 80% of his skills training passing to the right. They would have him do everything with his left hand when one hand could be used and fine him if he was caught doing stuff with his right hand.

I have watched the Tahs train on many occasions and have never seen anything like this; nor backs practice passing to their bad side.

It's not rocket science, but I digress.

 

[cyclopath]

I think Burgess + Holmes is an odd combination. But I suppose it gives you two very different sorts of tricks in the box.

To me it says the Tahs will be more focussed on the fling it wide stuff.

We haven't brought defenders in Mitchell and Holmes, but we do require a real backs coach.

I would love to believe that it means there is a plan. Unfortunately, we are talking about the NSWRU, and they probably got Mitchell because they thought he was marketable with the blond streaks and all :
I cannot really explain Holmes. Is there a statute of limitations on "potential"? After how many years of under-achievement do we just accept that a player doesn't have it? I'm not writing Holmes off, but I'd love to know what the coaches see in him that has not been presented on the field?

 

[cyclopath]

Agree with most that it's probably win/win/win/win and let us not forget the availability of McKibbin for the Reds and Sua for the Tahs. They are both fine players and I rate them higher than Stannard. Others will disagree and that's fine.

It is a great pity that Genia got himself suspended for 4 weeks and is currently injured. Otherwise he could have shown enough to be a smokey for 3rd string scrummie in the Wallaby squad.

There is no reason not to believe Friend when he said he preferred Phibbs above Holmes; neither is there a reason to disbelieve the NSW alickadoo when he said they were after Holmes, not Phibbs. Different strokes.

The time is running out for Holmes. He is not the young gun with all the talents anymore. With Holmes, the Tahs coaching staff should have him doing drills to help him release the ball early. A couple of months should do it.

If clearance from a ruck or scrum was an element in American Football and Holmes was a player, an NFL assistant coach would have the stopwatch on him at training, week after week. They would make sure his right foot was opposite the ball early when passing left; they would have a daily log of accuracy stats relating to meeting the target with the pass - both ways; they would have him trained in standup passing and they would have him doing 20 other different skills pertinent to his job.

And if his pass to the left was better they would spend 80% of his skills training passing to the right. They would have him do everything with his left hand when one hand could be used and fine him if he was caught doing stuff with his right hand.

I have watched the Tahs train on many occasions and have never seen anything like this; nor backs practice passing to their bad side.

It's not rocket science, but I digress.

Who would you rate above him (prior to injury) apart from Burgess (and I reckon Genias has shaded him too)? Just interested.