Australia's propping problems

[RugbyReg]

Junior Reds coaches have selected an Under 15 merit team to compensate for the absence of a representative fixture in 2008.

1 Kieran Fitzgibbon
2 Maile Ngauamo
3 Jake Payne
4 Jack Bridges
5 Lucas Frater
6 Curtis Browning
7 Nick Malouf (c)
8 Jay Adkins
9 Ben Meehan
10 Sam Johnson
11 James Klaassen
12 Nick Oui
13 Chris Sautia
14 Zac Santo
15 Emmanuel Bell

see that guy in the middle at the back? The tall guy with the long neck? That's Kieran Fitzgibbon as far as I can tell. That's right, the LOOSE HEAD PROP! :nta: :nta:

 

[rugbywhisperer]

We are talking QRU junior selections here Noddy -
I you look carefully there is a rabbit and a top hat somewhere as well.

 

[naza]

Tell us about the tighthead. I like the phonetics of his surname.

 

[Lee Grant]

We can only dream of his being teamed up with Hardman for the Reds, as Sean will have hung up his boots by that time.

 

[Scarfman]

Not much in the way of polynesian names there. I thought the entire Churchie backline were "scholarship" boys.

 

[RugbyReg]

Scarfie, this is an under 15 team. Its Grade 11/U16 when they tend to start flocking into the boarding schools.

 

[rugbywhisperer]

Scarfie, this is an under 15 team. Its Grade 11/U16 when they tend to start flocking into the boarding schools.

By Boarding Schools you mean Nudgee and State High?

 

[RugbyReg]

And TSS!

 

[Scarfman]

OK - but here's a question.

Where are the 15 year olds that will flock to the boarding schools? Are they playing league? Or are they un-noticed by the selectors because they don't go to a boarding school?

(Some CHS old boy resentment coming out here).

 

[TOCC]

have a look at the 2009 Reds Academy squad, this to is quite devoid of islander/polynesian players

 

[Lindommer]

OK - but here's a question. Where are the 15 year olds that will flock to the boarding schools? Are they playing league? Or are they un-noticed by the selectors because they don't go to a boarding school?

Herein lies one of the great weaknesses of Australian rugby: the emphasis of schools over district for our junior rugby players. These 15 year olds are playing league, Scarfie, on Sundays, and union with their junior clubs on Saturdays.

A lot of parents can't afford six years or whatever of private schooling, so they plan on a minimum of two years at Nudgee, Churchie, TSS, King's, Scots, Joeys or whereever. Pushy parents, mostly fathers if their lad's good at games, look to schools like these as "rugby finishing schools" as they (rightly) realise there are better opportunities for advancement through the schools' route rather than the district one. Other sports, soccer, league, AFL, tennis, swimming, athletics and especially cricket, develop their talented juniors via the district route rather than the schools one.

The non-private schools perform well in rugby in NSW and, it would seem, WA. There's always been a fine tradition of playing union rather than league in high schools in the more established parts of Sydney, say east of Parramatta. League's firmly entrenched in Sydney's western wastelands and it's always been the code of choice for the non-elite Catholic schools in NSW. But the vast majority of those union-playing government schoolboys also play league on Sundays and the talented ones are closely monitored by the NRL clubs, and have their cards marked.

Until we resolve this district v schools dilemma rugby will remain a boutique sport in Australia.

 

[rugbywhisperer]

And TSS!

TSS don't take in too many of Islander decent. Can't think of any at all in next years squad. The only new imports to TSS for next year are the Cox twins from Northern NSW.
I can only think of two Islanders in recent history at TSS, Lloyd Johannson and Vitori Buatava.

 

[rugbywhisperer]

OK - but here's a question.
Where are the 15 year olds that will flock to the boarding schools? Are they playing league? Or are they un-noticed by the selectors because they don't go to a boarding school?
(Some CHS old boy resentment coming out here).

The simple answer to your question is yes - most of them are currently at league.
State High and Nudgee seem to pick up quite a few - although NC stocks generally come from their place of origin while State High seem to attract players from local suburbs (mainly league players).

 

[rugbywhisperer]

OK - but here's a question. Where are the 15 year olds that will flock to the boarding schools? Are they playing league? Or are they un-noticed by the selectors because they don't go to a boarding school?

Herein lies one of the great weaknesses of Australian rugby: the emphasis of schools over district for our junior rugby players. These 15 year olds are playing league, Scarfie, on Sundays, and union with their junior clubs on Saturdays.
A lot of parents can't afford six years or whatever of private schooling, so they plan on a minimum of two years at Nudgee, Churchie, TSS, King's, Scots, Joeys or whereever. Pushy parents, mostly fathers if their lad's good at games, look to schools like these as "rugby finishing schools" as they (rightly) realise there are better opportunities for advancement through the schools' route rather than the district one. Other sports, soccer, league, AFL, tennis, swimming, athletics and especially cricket, develop their talented juniors via the district route rather than the schools one.
The non-private schools perform well in rugby in NSW and, it would seem, WA. There's always been a fine tradition of playing union rather than league in high schools in the more established parts of Sydney, say east of Parramatta. League's firmly entrenched in Sydney's western wastelands and it's always been the code of choice for the non-elite Catholic schools in NSW. But the vast majority of those union-playing government schoolboys also play league on Sundays and the talented ones are closely monitored by the NRL clubs, and have their cards marked.
Until we resolve this district v schools dilemma rugby will remain a boutique sport in Australia.

I think the situation in Queensland is entirely unhealthy. Any and all promising lads are picked up by the GPS schools and this does weaken the club player base. Also the GPS schools have a dominance over the Independents very unlike that in Sydney. The gap is too large.
While the GPS do give a better standard of play and experience, this has obviously come to the detriment of club rugby. At leat in Brisbane, some of the GPS lads do play club on Sundays up until about grade 10 maybe, but after that if they are any good the school takes precedent..

 

[Ash]

OK - but here's a question.
Where are the 15 year olds that will flock to the boarding schools? Are they playing league? Or are they un-noticed by the selectors because they don't go to a boarding school?
(Some CHS old boy resentment coming out here).

The simple answer to your question is yes - most of them are currently at league.
State High and Nudgee seem to pick up quite a few - although NC stocks generally come from their place of origin while State High seem to attract players from local suburbs (mainly league players).

State High is not a boarding school though (unless it has drastically changed recently). In fact, during the mid-late 90s and early 2000s I know that they did not even recruit any talent, what they had was merely the people who chose to attend. In that era State High selected students on on three categories only (in priority order):
1. Local area catchment, guaranteed entry.
2. Sibling or child of BSHS (ex-)student, guaranteed entry.
3. Non-local area, academic results from primary school.

Sports ability had nothing to do with it.

During the mid-90s, the then headmaster of State High nearly bowed to the education department's wishes and make entry 100% random, as the 3rd choice apparently was "discriminatory" against the, ahem, academically challenged. Funnily enough, under the same yes-man headmaster State High's academic record and sports record tumbled. Strong rumour had it that a few people back then in the Queensland education department didn't like State High, and a weak headmaster did not help.

Did/does State High recruit talented sports kids from the early-2000s to now? I have no idea.

 

[TOCC]

yeah im unaware of BSH recruiting players, they dont have the financial backing to be able to offer the players good scholarships, on top of that they dont offer the same 'high class' education persona that the GPS schools like Nudgee and TSS have.

Regardless of this, the QRU is making decent headway in the development of non-private school rugby, in 2009 or 2010 there is a new comp starting up which will be for the schools currently outside the AIC or GPS system.

Its scary to say, but the private school rugby system in Brisbane is rugby unions biggest strenght and its biggest weakness. Without it Rugby Union would struggle, but having it alienates clubs rugby and non private schools

 

[disco]

Is it possible for a young bloke to pick up a scholarship with schools like nudgee just by being good at rugby and the parents don't pay a cent for schooling?

Say if a player was 12 or 13 & carving up at club level will the school poach him that early?

 

[TOCC]

yes it is possible, and it does happen now probably not at 12 though, that is still in junior school(year 7 and below), but it is definetly possible for year 8(senior schoo) and above..

But he would have to be pretty dam good, really standing out from the crowd at that age, probaly more likely around grade 10 and 11.

Although, alternatively NRL clubs like the Broncos do hand out school scholarships around that age, once again though only to the really good juniors, and maybe not all of there fees.

 

[Scotty]

I don't know of anyone picked up on a scholarship at that young an age. Minimum of 15 seems to be more the norm. It is hard to tell if they are going to be any good before then.

 

[TOCC]

i dont know of any full scholarships, but there have being some partial scholarships, 25-50%