Australian Rugby / RA

[Finsbury Girl]

I'm 100% behind Hoiles.

Until other states can produce 20 odd professional players they have no right to have a whinge. They only ever functioned off the back of plundering the stocks of NSW and QLD rugby.

 

[Slim 293]

I'm 100% behind Hoiles.

Until other states can produce 20 odd professional players they have no right to have a whinge. They only ever functioned off the back of plundering the stocks of NSW and QLD rugby.

 

[Finsbury Girl]

Great attempt at a troll mate.

20 odd years of poaching and you can point out 2 blokes we took under our wing and made them better rugby players.

 

[Slim 293]

Great attempt at a troll mate.

20 odd years of poaching and you can point out 2 blokes we took under our wing and made them better rugby players.

 

[Show-n-go]

^^

His not entirely wrong though. How many Canberra locals currently play super rugby? What’s the largest percentage of local players that has been in a Brumbies matchday team or squad, ever?

Brumbies are bloody good at developing other states talent, not so great at finding their own

Still think they should be in the comp but it’s a valid point

 

[Slim 293]

Brumbies are bloody good at developing other states talent, not so great at finding their own

 

[Strewthcobber]

What difference at pro level does where you came from make? These aren't rep teams.

Find the best talent you can from whereever you get it

 

[Show-n-go]

It’s ok slim it’s just an observation, your brumbies did a mighty fine job with those players

You ok now?

 

[Show-n-go]

What difference at pro level does where you came from make? These aren't rep teams.

Find the best talent you can from whereever you get it

By and large it doesn’t really

Although I guess the argument against is that’s it’s destroying depth of the other franchises squads

 

[LearningCurve]

Until we sort out and keep quality (elite) coaches in Australia we will never compete with NZRU who look after their own and provide targeted development and support for others OS.

What is the process of appointing these coaches and the next level of coaches
Have all the below coaches come through any profiling?
Rebels and Tahs need full coaching restructures

Should the role of GM professional pathways be replaced with a Director of Rugby position with old heads sitting above.
This is the UK model and if HC leaves the system and structure in place remain.
Imagine the IP we could have in these roles


In review
Rebels
Wessels HC - SA
Parling - Eng - no coaching experience, but was a good player so maybe that counts!!
Berne - AUS limited coaching only in ireland as academy coach
Foote - SA - SA 7s, Perth
GM professional pathways - Nick Ryan

Reds
Thorne - NZ NRC plus reds 2 seasons now
McKay AUS - Wallaby, most experienced attack coach currently in Aust, Super Rugby title , Tonga WC, Japan TL
Peter Ryan AUS - Brum, Fiji
Lillicrap - AUST Scrum Coach
GM professional pathways - Nick Cordingley


Waratahs
Gibson - NZ - is not a HC
Whitaker - AUS Coaching history? France DIV 2? small playing coach roles at end of career
Cron NZ　- Promises and talks a good game but has not delivered,
Tandy - Welsh, this one is the most questionable
Tandy joined the NSW Waratahs earlier this year as part of a professional development opportunity from Wales and Gibson said he brings a different coaching philosophy to the team. Mates with CEO from Ospreys
GM Professional Pathways - Tim Rapp

Brumbies - All AUST COACHES ALL THROUGH PATHWAYS
McKellar - AUS
Fisher - AUS
Hewat- AUS
GM Professional Pathways - Chris Tindall NZ from the Chiefs

 

[LearningCurve]

U

Brumbies - All AUST COACHES ALL THROUGH PATHWAYS
McKellar - AUS
Fisher - AUS
Hewat- AUS
GM Professional Pathways - Chris Tindall NZ from the Chiefs

What pathways did Hewat come through? He played in Aus then ended up in Japan and started coaching there. Brumbies hired him based on his Japan experience. McKellar was another who coached in Japan, and according to Wikipedia learnt the art of coaching originally in Ireland before coming to Brisbane to coach in club rugby, then to Canberra coaching, then off to Japan and back to Canberra. All good, but it shows that having experience in other environments is a good thing, just like players getting experience in different playing and coaching environments can help them be more adaptable.

 

[Rebels3]

I'm 100% behind Hoiles.

Until other states can produce 20 odd professional players they have no right to have a whinge. They only ever functioned off the back of plundering the stocks of NSW and QLD rugby.

The thing is you are never going to get 20 blokes unless there is a professional pathway.

It takes a generation or two for it to work out.

Like with what was happening with the Force, the Rebels squad is slowly becoming more and more home based each season.
This year there was 7 players that were genuine Victorian products in the squad (Faulkner, Uelese, Fa’amasuili, Hosea, Leota, Tuipulotu, Sa’aga), that’s looking like growing at a minimum of another number with young u20s wing Sione Tui been part of the squad. The Force had similar numbers in their last year. There is also a few good players running around that you might of heard of like Pete Samu, Rob Valetini, CLL and Benny Taps.

Rugby is supposed to be a game for everyone, not just QLD and NSW.

I hope you aren’t someone that bemoans the damage that’s happening to the community game, yet are prepared to destroy one community for another, that would be hypocritical if so.

 

[RebelYell]

Why do we have to cut a team?

Why can't we have a 10-12 team Trans-Pacific competition where all games are on in prime time TV and against teams from places we actually know, and as a result they generate greater commercial interest and players can command greater salaries.

Therefore, the players we are losing overseas/to the NRL actually have an incentive to want to play Rugby in Australia.

Yes, we will have to go backwards to go forwards, but when we continue to be involved with SANZAAR we will never buck the trend and soon it will be too late.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Why do we have to cut a team?

Why can't we have a 10-12 team Trans-Pacific competition where all games are on in prime time TV and against teams from places we actually know, and as a result they generate greater commercial interest and players can command greater salaries.

Therefore, the players we are losing overseas/to the NRL actually have an incentive to want to play Rugby in Australia.

Yes, we will have to go backwards to go forwards, but when we continue to be involved with SANZAAR we will never buck the trend and soon it will be too late.

Because in order to do that we need NZ to want to play ball. They so far are not keen. I'd support such a league involving a Fiji and combined Samoa/Tonga franchise preferably played under GRR laws as I think it would produce a very watchable product but it just won't happen.

 

[RebelYell]

Because in order to do that we need NZ to want to play ball. They so far are not keen. I'd support such a league involving a Fiji and combined Samoa/Tonga franchise preferably played under GRR laws as I think it would produce a very watchable product but it just won't happen.

Tell them to fly over us, and see how long that lasts. I'm sure Tasman/North Harbour would be very interested in joining the type of competition you suggested, and the SA teams are still hedging their bets and considering going North. It's time for bravery

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I was at my son's school game this morning and bumped into an old work colleague, who played first grade here in Perth and Oz rep footy too back in the day. His boy plays 1st XV and he's still plugged into the club scene here in the West. He said something a bit troubling, in that the participation rate is starting to drop off here. I'd have to believe the dropping of the Force was a big contributor to that. A lot of good rugby people in WA feel like the code has abandoned them.

I have a hard time agreeing with Stephen Hoiles on the number of sides too. Are we trying to grow the game or not? Just when the pathways over here in WA were producing elite level players, we get the rug pulled. I know the argument about QLD being poached from at the beginning and accept that, but at the same time, we're in a competition with other codes in our own country and in the same code with other countries. God forbid we'd try to build something outside of QLD and NSW.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I will also say that the attitude I've encountered from some quarters in the East about all of this has been pretty cavalier and a bunch of "screw you I've got mine", which I think is bullshit.

 

[cyclopath]

Why do we have to cut a team?

Why can't we have a 10-12 team Trans-Pacific competition where all games are on in prime time TV and against teams from places we actually know, and as a result they generate greater commercial interest and players can command greater salaries.

Therefore, the players we are losing overseas/to the NRL actually have an incentive to want to play Rugby in Australia.

Yes, we will have to go backwards to go forwards, but when we continue to be involved with SANZAAR we will never buck the trend and soon it will be too late.

Because there will not be enough money in it to pay the players enough that they won't go to Japan or Europe, not even close. With broadcasting revenues shrinking, what prime time TV is going to pony up real money for it? I get where you're coming from, though.

 

[Dctarget]

Hoiles can get bent. Also, rubbish argument about QLD/NSW producing most of the players. Yes, literally majority of the players originate from those states - but both, in particular QLD, are well known for being shite at developing their players professionally when they make it to super level. Many have to leave to upskill, typically to the Brumbies. More professional teams = more professional pathways.

Sidenote: Melbournian Valetini was an absolute weapon tonight.

 

[RebelYell]

Because there will not be enough money in it to pay the players enough that they won't go to Japan or Europe, not even close. With broadcasting revenues shrinking, what prime time TV is going to pony up real money for it? I get where you're coming from, though.

People didn't think that the Big Bash would work either. We have to have a crack. We just have to.

And we'll have to go backwards to go forwards - smaller salary caps etc. for first few years, meaning we lose some more players overseas, but we can't keep rolling along like we currently are.