Australia Vs. England, Twickenham, 2nd November 2013

[fatprop]

So we have a plan to kick the shit out of the ball from 9, and we select the 9 that doesn't kick that well, I don't understand ......

As per the last year or so we are beaten in the forwards, we just aren't fast enough, aggressive enough or accurate enough.

The solution the our scrum issues? Don't knock on the ball or throw forward passes. We were alright on our ball. We just suck at working as a unit on their ball.

But I do dislike sides that play for penalties instead of playing, valid plan, but I would prefer to see a side use a dominant scrum positively rather than playing for a penalty.

 

[Braveheart81]

I haven't watched a replay but another refereeing blunder looked to be in the first half when Australia kicked for touch from inside their 22, Yarde caught the ball on the touchline and took a quick throw and England spread the ball and got back towards the Wallabies end.

Now the Wallabies seemed to appeal that Yarde had actually caught the ball in the field of play and then took it out. Whilst I am not positive about that, Yarde definitely took the quick throw with one foot in and one foot out.

You have to have both feet outside the touchline to take a quick throw and the assistant referee should have picked that up and brought the ball back for a Wallabies scrum (or maybe it is an option of a lineout or scrum).

 

[Baldric]

Now the Wallabies seemed to appeal that Yarde had actually caught the ball in the field of play and then took it out. Whilst I am not positive about that, Yarde definitely took the quick throw with one foot in and one foot out.

I saw that too. I was not sure if he was in our out when he caught it, but he should definitely been pulled up for incorrect throw. This is a test match after all, not an under 14 game with a parent as a TJ.

 

[louie]

To'omua came up to take it then gave it back to White. It was definitely White that stuffed it up.

His over eagerness to kick is the real disappointing thing with his game though. 7 points down and ball on halfway - you don't need to kick for the corner everytime.

This sums the wobs up for me. Instead for doing the simple things (like getting the ball in touch winning the line out and working hard to apply pressure), they go for the miracle move instead. No composure, confidence or game plan.

 

[Scotty]

The rules around when a ball is out don't make sense at all to me.

When you kick for the line, the lineout is taken where the ball crosses the vertical plane of the touch line.

And yet if I had go go gadget arms I could catch said ball 2m over the line and stop it from going out if my feet are still in play? It seems ridiculous. Two different rules!

And while I am at it - can we please change the breakdown rules back to whoever is going forward gets the feed when the ball is trapped. It is against the spirit of the game to see a maul roll forward 10m only to see it go to the opposition when it collapses and they effectively kill the ball on the ground!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

You have to wonder what was said to the teams at Oranges, because this match was really one of two halves.

 

[It is what it is]

Some observations;
- Genia looks like he needs a break from rugby. His running game has deserted him and he looks flat and tired.
- Thank God for Hooper's early low tackles on England's ball runners before they gained momentum.
- Again the Wallabies lacked low body height and leg drive.
- We won possession off a short kick off and then went deep off the next kick off - why?
- To'omua is a good all round player.
- Genia should learn how to box kick properly or don't do it.
- Why does Mowen pick up the ball on our scrum and pass it to Genia so often?
- Why don't the Wallabies drive the ball away from the lineout more often? instead we give quick ball from the top and get smashed behind the advantage line in midfield.
- We look worse the longer we hang on to the ball. We run out of ideas, shape and energy.
- No one in the Wallabies hurts the opposition with or without the ball.
- We have 2 years to develop a competitive scrum or we will again be bundled out of another RWC through scrummaging deficiencies.

 

[en_force_er]

If Timani had Palu's workrate, accuracy and effectiveness he would be a world beater, instead of a fringe Wallaby.

People don't get that do they.

Palu is extraordinarily efficient. He is the Wallabies best clean-out forward, makes plenty of tackles, and almost always makes the gain line. Sure, he's not the block busting 8 he once was but he's incredibly effective.

I think when people see an Islander with an 8 on his back they expect him to be a walking highlight reel but if you start seeing Palu more as a similar player to Vermeulen then you see that it's perfectly acceptable for an international 8 to just be a guy who's very good at bread and butter tasks.

 

[Bullrush]

The rules around when a ball is out don't make sense at all to me.

When you kick for the line, the lineout is taken where the ball crosses the vertical plane of the touch line.

And yet if I had go go gadget arms I could catch said ball 2m over the line and stop it from going out if my feet are still in play? It seems ridiculous. Two different rules!

And while I am at it - can we please change the breakdown rules back to whoever is going forward gets the feed when the ball is trapped. It is against the spirit of the game to see a maul roll forward 10m only to see it go to the opposition when it collapses and they effectively kill the ball on the ground!

I think that the ball is still deemed to have gone out so even if you had gog go gadget arms, if the ball crosses over the line, there should be a line-ou.

The maul rule is fine as it is. The ball is almost always killed before it goes to ground. That's why the opposition is trying to keep the ball up first.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think that the ball is still deemed to have gone out so even if you had gog go gadget arms, if the ball crosses over the line, there should be a line-out.

Not if you keep your feet within the field of play and the ball never touches the ground or any object that is touching the ground outside the field of play.

The only part of the ball in touch law that I find silly is this bit:

A player in touch may kick or knock the ball, but not hold it, provided it has not crossed the plane of the touchline. The plane of the touchline is the vertical space rising immediately above the touchline.

If you're outside the field of play and you touch the ball, it should be out no matter where the ball is in my opinion.

 

[en_force_er]

The maul rule is fine as it is. The ball is almost always killed before it goes to ground. That's why the opposition is trying to keep the ball up first.

Agreed. It forces you to really control the maul.

If you don't have control of the maul (i.e you have the ball and you're going forward) you don't deserve to keep the ball. The maul is only a go-to option if you're really effective at it, and since it's a shitty spectacle that's okay with me.

 

[Rugby Is My Life]

The Wallabies should have won - England were terrible yet somehow found a way to win (or did we find yet another way to lose!) regardless of some atrocious refereeing.

Genia had his worst test - the box kick charge-down for an English try was farcical. I can't count how many times he does it without a result. Watch the All Blacks - EVERYTHING is contested!

In general, numerous missed kicks for touch (penalties + general play) as well as kicking quality ball away when on attack was bewildering. Add to the mix, poor scrummaging attitudes and soft/lazy defence and we shot ourselves in the foot.

What the entire Wallaby set-up needs to do is cut the bullshit pre-test chat. It's like ground hog day. "We're looking for consistency with our scrummaging", etc. Shut up and play - worry about executing a simple, back to basics game plan under pressure on a regular basis.

If only some of the players showed the ticker Ewen has already. He's dropped Genia, was tough on O'Connor before the ARU made their final decision and demoted Horwill. We've finally got a coach with the balls to make big calls without bias. We now need the players to step up to the plate and grab the bull by the horns.

As a proud but bloody frustrated Wallaby supporter, all we want to see is our blokes having a real dig and playing with flair. A lack of basic skills limits improvement in most other areas.

Could any of our blokes execute what Brodie Retallick did 3 weeks ago - run straight & hard, take the ball to the line and throw a pass behind a dummy runner with a try just a few passes later? He's a lock!

 

[Rugby Is My Life]

The Wallabies should have won - England were terrible yet somehow found a way to win (or did we find yet another way to lose!) regardless of some atrocious refereeing.

Genia had his worst test - the box kick charge-down for an English try was farcical. I can't count how many times he does it without a result. Watch the All Blacks - EVERYTHING is contested!

In general, numerous missed kicks for touch (penalties + general play) as well as kicking quality ball away when on attack was bewildering. Add to the mix, poor scrummaging attitudes and soft/lazy defence and we shot ourselves in the foot.

What the entire Wallaby set-up needs to do is cut the bullshit pre-test chat. It's like ground hog day. "We're looking for consistency with our scrummaging", etc. Shut up and play - worry about executing a simple, back to basics game plan under pressure on a regular basis.

If only some of the players showed the ticker Ewen has already. He's dropped Genia, was tough on O'Connor before the ARU made their final decision and demoted Horwill. We've finally got a coach with the balls to make big calls without bias. We now need the players to step up to the plate and grab the bull by the horns.

As a proud but bloody frustrated Wallaby supporter, all we want to see is our blokes having a real dig and playing with flair. A lack of basic skills limits improvement in most other areas.

Could any of our blokes execute what Brodie Retallick did 3 weeks ago - run straight & hard, take the ball to the line and throw a pass behind a dummy runner with a try just a few passes later? He's a lock!

1:10 into the video is the Retallick example

 

[Inside Shoulder]

- Why don't the Wallabies drive the ball away from the lineout more often? instead we give quick ball from the top and get smashed behind the advantage line in midfield.

Spot on.
And a really top call is off the top from 2 because that gives the back rowers a head start on the ball as well.

 

[Muglair]

People don't get that do they.

Palu is extraordinarily efficient. He is the Wallabies best clean-out forward, makes plenty of tackles, and almost always makes the gain line. Sure, he's not the block busting 8 he once was but he's incredibly effective.

I think when people see an Islander with an 8 on his back they expect him to be a walking highlight reel but if you start seeing Palu more as a similar player to Vermeulen then you see that it's perfectly acceptable for an international 8 to just be a guy who's very good at bread and butter tasks.

In hindsight Palu has been far more influential than most of the pundits and media have understood. This has been clear from the comments of players and Deans although it has then been convenient for many to cite this as further evidence of Deans incompetence . A lot of JEM points for half a season.

As for Saturday, I thought advancing years had matured me and I accepted vagaries in refereeing performance with suitable calm. Not so apparently, an unbelievable performance. I just do not understand how so many borderline (and a couple of blatant) decisions could all go one way.

I am no fan of Alexander, he should not be starting or possibly even be on the bench as THP. However the tactics of MV would have been difficult to counter. Mostly props go through the motions of packing straight before boring in. I do not think I have ever seen a prop just pack diagonally into the scrum with such impunity.

Full credit to the English lock who apparently managed to push but not just fall straight through into the tunnel.

 

[Tangawizi]

As for Saturday, I thought advancing years had matured me and I accepted vagaries in refereeing performance with suitable calm. Not so apparently, an unbelievable performance. I just do not understand how so many borderline (and a couple of blatant) decisions could all go one way.

Well the IRB do have a lot of World Cup tickets to sell in England, to Englishmen so it's important they're winning......

 

[Muglair]

The maul rule is fine as it is. The ball is almost always killed before it goes to ground. That's why the opposition is trying to keep the ball up first.

The most dynamic and thrilling mauling team I remember were the Buck Shelford ABs. The only problem was that it ended up being a bit like my understanding of the St George RL team during the 50s and 60s. They got hold of the ball and did not give it back, either recycled it or won the ensuing scrums.

Then of course the real villains were other teams just hanging on to the ball and mauling slowly around the field.

The current rule gets rid of both. At the moment we are seeing an evolution in the game with players in contact more upright with a view to keeping the play alive. This has forced tacklers higher to stop the offload and seems to have increased defensive awareness around the possibilities of holding the ballrunner up, for example where a player picks up the ball in a static position and is isolated against multiple defenders who specifically react in unison to prevent the ball runner getting to the ground.

A few thought bubbles:
Inevitably rucking must come back, it opens up so many more possibilities, and removes some of the unintended consequences of law changes.
In some ways these laws seem to be affecting the absolute need for driving tight forward play, rarely our strong point. Perhaps we have then suffered more than most from the fall in standards.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Well the IRB do have a lot of World Cup tickets to sell in England, to Englishmen so it's important they're winning..

Not so sure that is the case. The IRB get their money regardless of ticket sales, from the licence to host Bill.

IIRC ticket sales goes to the Host Union. The England RU have a vested interest in getting as many bums on seats for the next RWC not the IRB.

The costs of RWC11 nearly broke NZ RU and apparently it will be a long time before NZ tries to host a RWC by itself again. There was a fairly big government bail out apparently. Rightly so because the overall economy benefits from the spending by the RWC tourists on things other than ticket sales.

 

[It is what it is]

Snip.....

A few thought bubbles:
Inevitably rucking must come back, it opens up so many more possibilities, and removes some of the unintended consequences of law changes.
In some ways these laws seem to be affecting the absolute need for driving tight forward play, rarely our strong point. Perhaps we have then suffered more than most from the fall in standards.

I'd love to see rucking come back but it will never return.
The IRB cannot condone an action where a player uses their boots to trample on the opposition.
It is unacceptable for television viewing (in these days of close-ups), and puts too many Mums and Dads off letting little Johnny play the game.

 

[Muglair]

Fair enough. It is a tough task for the rule makers to come up with a solution which would achieve the same outcomes as rucking but still be acceptable to Mummies and backs. Maybe the IRB should set up a seven second delay like live radio so that stray boots can be blacked out.