Aus U/20's Super 5?

[chief]

Was speculation mounting in the Australian today. O'Neil trying to reasure rugby's loyal fans that Rugby isn't in that much shit, despite Australia losing almost 10 percent of the supporter base since 2003. Keep going at that rate, and Rugby will be dead within 15 years.

But it also speculated about an U/20's Rugby competition involving the 5 Super Aussie Super 15 teams. Seems like a great idea in my view. I'm hoping it does come next year. But I should no better with O'Neil, that it won't come until he leaves. But it certainly looks the goods. And is a great idea.

Maybe would prefer U/21's though.

 

[rsea]

Another development series is a great idea but what Australia needs is another tier of Rugby under Super 15 so these guys have got somewhere to go once their Jnr days are over (other than OS)

 

[Lindommer]

An under 20 (or 21) competition for Australian Super sides looks like a good idea on paper, but more age-restricted games removes those players from the invaluabe experience of playing with and against old lags in either their club or another ARC-type competition. This is where NZ and SAf have it all over us: very few 19 and 20 year olds make the top team as they're learning the ropes in the NPC or Currie Cup against older and stronger blokes. How many NZ schoolboys make their Super sides in the following year compared to Australia?

Good idea JON, but make it a short competition. Another ARC would be a better idea.

 

[Brumbies Guy]

Another development series is a great idea but what Australia needs is another tier of Rugby under Super 15 so these guys have got somewhere to go once their Jnr days are over (other than OS)

And league

 

[fatprop]

U21s would be best, it would allow some of the RL Toyota Cup players (U20s) an opportunity to be tested as well

 

[Geeves]

Why not simply before each game in Aus next year:

U21's
B side
then the Super game.

 

[I like to watch]

U21s would be best, it would allow some of the RL Toyota Cup players (U20s) an opportunity to be tested as well

fuck them, we should not be considering the age to be 21's to accomodate people who have chosen RL and failed.
Rugby wastes enough resources already on people keeping their options open.

 

[Lee Grant]

1. Cost is the main objection to the ideas mentioned above.

2. It's U/20 and not U/21 if it's to be held during the S15 comp. This would tie it into the IRB U/20 comp which starts not long after.

 

[Brumby Jack]

Why not simply before each game in Aus next year:

U21's
B side
then the Super game.

Can't see it working as most U21's would probably make up a B side. And besides, they'd have to Kick off at 3pm in front of a probable zero crowd if they were to do something like that.

 

[fatprop]

fuck them, we should not be considering the age to be 21's to accomodate people who have chosen RL and failed.
Rugby wastes enough resources already on people keeping their options open.

Aus rugby has how many pro/semi pro contracts for U20? Three or Four per team, so 12 to 20 at best.

How many Aus Schools reps are on NRL contracts? The NRL has 12 teams of U20s, do you think we get every quality kid?


How many quality kids don't get a start in a S14 academy get an opportunity to play professional sport in the Toyota Cup.

Those guys are worth a look, they have at least been in pro training system so they have a core load.

 

[Bowside]

Why not just have an all age competition for b sides. An u20 comp just limits development, especially with forwards as most tight 5 players dont develop fully untill they are a little older.

The real question is weather to have this comp run during s15 season, or after the season during the international season. The latter option would weaken club rugby, but provide a stronger super 5 comp. It would also mean that sydney and brisbane club rugby would be closer in standard of the club comps in other states, as most of the other states 'b' teams would be made up from club players from brisbane and sydney, who would then no longer be with there old clubs.

The hard part will be getting it on tv (would ONE HD be interested?) and getting people to the games. I propose dirt cheap ticket prices and even cheaper beer at games.

 

[Scott Allen]

What about a combination of some of these ideas?

Super 5 comp played as the warm up to all Australian conference games - each 22 man game day squad must have say, 8, U/20's included eliglble for selection in that years IRB U/20 comp.

That way we'd boost the number of U/20's available for U/20 slection, give these younger guys the chance to play with some experienced guys and give the fringe Super 15 players somewhere to play as a bridge between club rugby and Super 15.

 

[barbarian]

Yeah really like that idea Austin. Let's not forget we currently do have a second-team competition- the Junior Tahs, Brumby Runners and Reds Academy teams play each other before the respective games. Think the Force might have a team as well.

The one benefit I see in making the competition solely under 20 is that it would mean better selections for their WC. Nowadays it is just a combination of the previous two years Australian Schoolboys, nobody else seems to get a look in. Having a wider range of players on show can only be good. But then what of the guys who are over 20 but not good enough for S14? Back to club footy?

What you need is a mix of youth and experience. Arguably the issue with the second-stringers now is the balance is a little bit skewed towards experience- guys like Al Manning who are never really going to reach the heights. Austin's idea would even that up nicely IMO.

 

[rugby_man]

I don't think having a 'B' side competition like some are suggesting is the way to go. Another competition like the ARC should be the only competition the ARU examine and look at IMO. It doesn't play second fiddle to any of the S15 clubs and has it's own identity and it's own followers. If it labelled as a 'B' grade competition, not many people will follow it hence the gate revenue won't be anything to sing about and there won't be enough money to keep it afloat. But then again, this was tried in 2007 and it didn't generate anywhere near enough revenue to keep it going for years to come. But it is definitely worth persisting with if it is established again.

 

[waratahjesus]

how is having an australian rugby competition going to bring fans back and arrest any slide at all?
10% of the fan base lost since 2003, i wonder why, could it be that the big name rugby league recruits have dried up, or would that just be to logical?
the fans lost to rugby arnt lost to sport, there watching something else, if only i knew what?

 

[Chronicle]

given that we are told the ARC was too expensive then surely a competition involving the current Super franchise 2nd teams (which would invole a fair number of U20's for IRB U20 selection) and a couple of other teams such as Brisbane team,Sydney (1 or 2) and country, possibly Victoria etc played in conjunction with main Super15 games for possibly a restricted period at start of the season would be at reduced costs in comparison with ARC and would at least give a place for the fringe players to develop. The current franchise seconds competition is haphazard at best, poorly advertised not always in conjunction with Super games (Junior Waratahs and Brumby Runners at Knox College) and way too short to develop players for Super football.

 

[RugbyFuture]

make it a super 6 with the franchises (tasmania included in victoria) and south australia and NT combined.

 

[TOCC]

This is a stepping stone in the right direction, it is however only a small step, everyone acknowledges that there is a greater problem but we still dont know how to address it.

I honestly believe that the new Sydney Club Rugby Union is the key to next tier of rugby. Exactly the same as AFL and NRL went professional, rugby union can follow a similar path, Its far from perect and
will most definetly not impress everyone in the community, but a new tier of rugby needs to rise out of the Sydney Clubs with a few additional QLD Clubs if it is to have any kind of financial success in the early years. By utilising exsisting teams we minimise the cost requirements for facilities and brand establishment, we also tap into the 'old boys' network of those clubs and link with established sponsors and suppliers.

The biggest issue is you risk alienating the fans of those clubs not promoted into the new competition, but is it any worse then alienating the fans of all the clubs by creating a competition with no links to the local club scene(aka ARC)?

 

[barbarian]

make it a super 6 with the franchises (tasmania included in victoria) and south australia and NT combined.

That wouldn't work because anyone that was any good from SA/NT/Vic/Tas would be playing for a franchise. Would be a bit like throwing the Grammar 14bs and cs into the GPS comp. Nobody would win with the 100-0 floggings that would ensue.