Argentina invited to join the Trinations

[JJJ]

It's finally happened. Conditional upon being able to guarantee their best players will be playing. 2012 is the proposed starting date.

Rugby's Tri-Nations could be expanded to a Four-Nations from 2012, with governing body SANZAR "conditionally" inviting Argentina to join the tournament.

SANZAR says the Pumas will need to ensure their best players are available, with southern hemisphere unions working to have them playing Super rugby rather than in Europe, where most now ply their trade.

Argentina and SANZAR will also need to finalise a financial model, while the governing body says it will also need to canvas the views of broadcasters.

"To have the Pumas, third at Rugby World Cup 2007 and currently ranked sixth in the world, join with the three top-ranked international teams in world rugby will be exciting for fans, players, sponsors and broadcasters across our four countries and beyond," SANZAR chief executive Andy Marinos said in a statement.

"They play a different style to the All Blacks, Springboks and Wallabies and their inclusion will see the Tri-Nations evolve to be a truly southern hemisphere championship.

The format for the Four Nations would see the four teams playing on a home and away basis, meaning six matches per team and a total of 12 matches overall.

The tournament would begin in mid-August, following the end of the expanded Super 15 competition.

From: http://www.rugbyheaven.com.au/news/...oin-tri-nations/2009/09/14/1252780263080.html


It's a long way away but this sounds like great news to me. I hear Argentina have a huge player-base, so they should have a lot of room to grow. TV viewing audiences should be great too if it takes off. Regular exposure to NZ and Aus might even help them get their running game going. What a killer travel schedule though. Having not seen a lot of the Argentinian rugby team I'm not that familiar with their style. Forward-oriented, isnt it? What would be points of difference between them and SA, for instance?

I really hope this goes ahead. While the trinations produces some high-quality rugby every year it was getting a bit tired. A change like this was overdue. Immediately after the last WC would've probably been better timing for the fans, though I'm sure there were many factors preventing this. Plus I think it was probably the unexpectedly good showing of Argentina in 2007 which made everyone suddenly take them seriously as candidates to join the trinations.

 

[Scotty]

The only way this 'condition' will be met is by the current 3N allowing Argentine players into the S15 teams, and letting quite a few of them in. Argentina don't look like having a pro comp anytime soon, so they will be relying on playing in the S15 to ensure they get their top players back from Europe and available.

 

[Newb]

The only way this 'condition' will be met is by the current 3N allowing Argentine players into the S15 teams, and letting quite a few of them in. Argentina don't look like having a pro comp anytime soon, so they will be relying on playing in the S15 to ensure they get their top players back from Europe and available.

sounds good with the 15th team coming in i would think. better than leagies.

 

[Scotty]

Yeah, but is it better than signing up PIs or players from other 3N? And how many should it be limited to without worrying about diluting the strength of each of the current 3N rugby? Maybe the ARU could expand their current rules to have a maximum of 4 non-australian players, and a maximum of 2 of these would be 'marquee' players.

 

[Scarfman]

Yessss! :yay I'm jumping up and down. Not literarally, because of the typing, but on the inside.

Best thing to happen to SH rugby since the start of the S12 / 3N.

I always said - build it and they will come. Give the Argies a place in the competition and the best players will slowly drift back to the national team away from Euro clubs. I'm confident that we'll get seomthing fairly close to the top team. A bit like New Zealand.

 

[Lindommer]

My suggestions for a future Tri Nations:

1. Argentina to be included (how they get their European-based professionals to return for matches in July-September is their problem);
2. Each country to play the other three countries home and away; that makes for six tests for each country and a total of 12 SANZAR tests each year.

Has that bastard O'Neill been reading my blogs again? : : :

So it's taken since my post in February for our wonderful SANZAR administrators to come to terms with the bleeding obvious.

To include Argentina is wonderful news. I've felt for a while three tests against the Boks (and now four tests against the ABs) is too much. To play either of them on consecutive weekends is starting to cheapen test rugby. Travel to and from South America won't be easy but rugby in the SH will be much the richer for Argentina's inclusion.

To paraphrase Norman "Nuggett" May: "Gold! Gold! Gold! Gold for Lindommer".

 

[JJJ]

Since it won't be until after the WC (which usually sparks a bunch of sabatticals and retirements) there should be room in the S15 for Argie players without it being diluted too much. If every S15 team takes in 3 Argie players that should be a pretty decent pool (45) for their national team to work with. So the three best players in every position. Dunno how they would sort out who gets who. A draft maybe? Then once their board gets on their feet (with a bit of help from the IRB) they can get their own Super teams and we're off and running.

Can someone educate me a bit on Argentinian rugby? What are the points of difference between their style and the Bok style?

 

[Lindommer]

Can someone educate me a bit on Argentinian rugby? What are the points of difference between their style and the Bok style?

Well, for a start the Argies are much better scrummagers but the Boks have a better lineout. Other than that their games are probably very similar with the Argies not having as much talent in the backs.

I imagine Argentina would love the free kick ELV when they'd scrummage their opponents into the dust.

 

[Lee Grant]

Like all true rugby fans I applaud the offer but the devil will be in the detail.

In the current Super15 proposal the Super15 will go from the end of February to the beginning of August. In that period there is to be a 3 week window for inbound test matches in June. IIRR 3N was supposed to start in August.

The proposal requires the Pumas to play their best players, but their best players play in Europe where they are particularly valuable during the 6N period when clubs lose so many stars to the 6 international teams.

A fellow like Contepomi gets time out for Argentina's autumn tours, but he would not get time out for 6 weeks in August and September, to play 6 games in 4N also; and add on a couple of weeks of squad training before that.

The only way for the best Argie players to be able to play in 4N would be for them to play in the Super15. It is not going to happen. Props are amongst the highest paid players by Top14 clubs and they won't be coming south for the modest salaries available in the SH. True, JMH is playing in the RSA as we speak, but that is just to get a rugby experience. For the average Puma player: he knows that his local grocer and butcher will not accept experience as legal tender when he wants to buy groceries for his family - especially down the track.

4N revenue will help a bit but it is unlikely that the Argie RU will be able to top up Puma salaries as the ARU can here for Wallabies.

There are a lot of Argies that play in France and Italy; not only 1st rankers but also 2nd rankers. There may be a few players decide to play in the Super15 because France will lower the percentage of foreign players allowed to play in French teams in the next few years, but the clubs will always want to keep the best Argie players especially those wearing jerseys numbered 5 and lower.

I see a scenario where all but a few of the best Argie players will want to stay in Europe, but that a few older internationals near the end of their time, plus some younger guys who haven't been to Europe yet, plus a couple of 1st rankers, will play in the Super15. Then once those youngsters have proves themselves in internationals I'd expect most of them to head north to the gravy train.

This scenario does not reconcile with the requirement that Argentina will have to play their best players, and if the requirement is not met, but they are still allowed in, then it will do the present 3N teams no favours excepting one: they will be able to try out fringe players for the EOYT.

 

[louie]

i'm all for it. sohlud have been done years ago. Japan next...

 

[mark_s]

What about the PIs?

 

[louie]

Them too....

 

[Scotty]

4N revenue will help a bit but it is unlikely that the Argie RU will be able to top up Puma salaries as the ARU can here for Wallabies.

With 3 massive block buster home games, you'd have to believe that they could help top-up salaries. Either way the Argentine rugby union need to move heaven and earth to make it happen, because this is what they have been waiting for, for many years, and could lead to a proper professional local competition. Of course it is also good for rugby world wide.

 

[JJJ]

Ha nice emblem change. Didn't see that one there.

 

[Part of the union]

It won't happen. The IRB, the SH or NH will find away to fuck this up.

 

[disco]

About time I hope it goes ahead & the series goes back to two games against each nation with the Bledisloe staying as best of 3.

 

[cheezel]

Could this possibly mean the Melbourne team will be chock full of Argentinians? Wouldn't be a bad idea, I can't see how they'll send a full strength team when all the quality players are in the Northern Hemisphere tournament.