Argentina in SANZAR

[Redsfan]

Apparently all obstacles are overcome, the IRB is pumping money into developing Argentine academies, and they'll soon be yet another team for the Wallabies to capitulate to. Can't wait to see the games there, the packed out stadiums and all the colour and passion that the Argies bring to the sport.

Meanwhile, all obstacles stopping Argentina from joining South Africa, New Zealand and Australia in a Four Nations tournament for four years have been overcome, after a meeting in Sydney last week between the IRB, SANZAR and the Argentinian union. Miller said the task was to ''work when they will come in, what the governing structure is going to be, how are they going to split money and what will happen after the four years. Then they have to sign a contract. All the obstacles in the way have been cleared out.''

The IRB, Miller said, would contribute £1 million a year to Argentina to create academies and high-performance structures - ''everything you see here in Australia so they can bring along the players, so it's not just one golden generation, and then the talent dries up''.

The IRB has also moved to ensure Argentina's best players in Europe are released from their clubs to play in the allotted Four Nations window and pledged $US10m ($10.8m) over four years to SANZAR to cover the possible short-term financial losses from Argentina's arrival.

''''There has been a huge change in [mentality in] Argentina, the last of the top-10 unions to make the transition from the amateur game to the professional,'' Miller said.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/its-a-matter-of-respect-irb-denies-overreacting-20100912-1572i.html

 

[MrTimms]

Interesting, and good news too.

Can you pop a link in there to the site that came from?

 

[Sudaca]

Mr Timms, it's on the Sydney morning herald, together with another article about the IRB respect for the Haka,


It's a matter of respect: IRB denies overreacting Rupert Guinness
September

 

[chief]

I think the Foreign Quota should be lifted, to accommodate Argentinians. So any Argentinian Internationally eligible player, can play in the S15. I was hoping the Rebels would have signed at least a few.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Tough call the Foreign quota rule. Doing so will increase the skill levels on display, but to an extent it limits homegrown development opportunities.

More bums on seats for the entertainment spectacle, less passion due to the tribalism.

Although AFL manage to maintain an extremely heatlhy tribalism with tons of "foreigners". Mick Malthouse current Collingwood coach was a West Coast Premiership winning coach before Eddie Everwhere poached him for Collingwood. Chris Judd was similarly a died in the wool Sandgrouper who has come east and been adopted as one of their own by the Carlton crew. Our very own Swan Taigh Kenally (spelling) is another example. Examples of a player, coach and international import, who have all made a difference at their new franchise, without impacting on the local development options, or resulted in punters not showing up.

Not sure how relevant Aerial Ping Pong examples are to Heavensgame, as they could have Osama Bin Laden, Kim Ill Jung, and Hambali playing for Collingwood and the ferals would still show up.

 

[sudrugby]

I just hope most of the Pumas will leave Europe and to play in the South Hemisphere after RWC 2011. I believe only Eusebio Guinazu is playing right now in SA for Boland and the Stormers. And I read that the Crusaders wanted to hire two young argentinians props.
Most of the old Pumas like Contepomi, Ledesma, Roncero or Scelzo will retire after the WC and I can't believe guys like Hernandez or Albacete will leave Paris and Toulouse. Some young players are now in top European teams (Leinster, Paris, Montpellier) and are well paid... so same probleme for them.

 

[naza]

Are they entertaining/expansive enough ?

 

[en_force_er]

Are they entertaining/expansive enough ?

Our Argentine friends play French style rugby for obvious reasons BUT if we see them playing more rugby in our hemisphere's professional leagues they will naturally evolve to play rugby in a 3Ns style.

 

[RugbyFuture]

posted this beofre, advantage of a conferance system...

had to make it smaller for the upload

 

[en_force_er]

Do all these conferences produce competitive rugby players and could they all produce financially viable Super outfits? Unfortunately, I'm sure there would be a professional league there already if they could.

Still, when we take into account the lack of a Super rugby salary cap they could pay their players whatever wage is financially viable in their country and if they have their best 4-5 players playing in France in sure they could come home for the 4Ns (like the Saffas do).

Perhaps if their conference couldn't produce 5 viable unions a American or Canadian one could come into play? Sadly, that is probably even LESS financially viable.

 

[Thomond78]

The Argentinians do not, nor have they ever, played what everyone who's not seen the real thinks of as French rugby (the jeu du main des Toulousains).

They do play French rugby; but of the down, dirty, don't-bother-with-the-whistle-for-the-first-half-hour-M.l'Arbitre-we'll-call-you-when-we're-ready-to-play-rugby, Castres v. Albi, BO v. Bayonne kind. And more power to them. They've huge, big, meat-fed, lumps who like to scrummage; sort of ethnically-Italian, Spanish-speaking lost Boere. And, given that there's an enclave of Dutchmen in Patagonia, it's not that surprising. It's all for the good. It won't be scintillating running rugby, but by God will you have to work for a win. And that's right and proper in rugby.

Plus, their wimmin are excellent eye-candy, BA would be an astonishing away trip, they're so dedicated to burnt meat that I have an Argentinian cookbook with a recipe for how to braai a whole cow, and their Malbec is excellent tack. They're good guys, and you should be bloody glad to have them in.

 

[da_grubster]

The Argentinians do not, nor have they ever, played what everyone who's not seen the real thinks of as French rugby (the jeu du main des Toulousains).

They do play French rugby; but of the down, dirty, don't-bother-with-the-whistle-for-the-first-half-hour-M.l'Arbitre-we'll-call-you-when-we're-ready-to-play-rugby, Castres v. Albi, BO v. Bayonne kind. And more power to them. They've huge, big, meat-fed, lumps who like to scrummage; sort of ethnically-Italian, Spanish-speaking lost Boere. And, given that there's an enclave of Dutchmen in Patagonia, it's not that surprising. It's all for the good. It won't be scintillating running rugby, but by God will you have to work for a win. And that's right and proper in rugby.

Plus, their wimmin are excellent eye-candy, BA would be an astonishing away trip, they're so dedicated to burnt meat that I have an Argentinian cookbook with a recipe for how to braai a whole cow, and their Malbec is excellent tack. They're good guys, and you should be bloody glad to have them in.

BA would be great, I would love to go on a pilgrimage there and learn how to cook meat argentinean style I remember as a kid, the ABs would come back with tales from Argentina of how big the steaks are. As a meat freak this would be a great trip!!!

 

[stoff]

Although AFL manage to maintain an extremely heatlhy tribalism with tons of "foreigners". Mick Malthouse current Collingwood coach was a West Coast Premiership winning coach before Eddie Everwhere poached him for Collingwood. Chris Judd was similarly a died in the wool Sandgrouper who has come east and been adopted as one of their own by the Carlton crew.

Except that they were both from Melbourne originally. Judd went to Caulfield Grammar and grew up supporting Melbourne before he came home. Malthouse played for St Kilda and Richmond, and then coached Footscray before he went west.

I think tribalism is different in what is essentially a one town comp like the NRL or AFL. If their was a quota on slots for Argentinians - say one marquee and one development per Super Rugby franchise it could work without any major impact on the talent pool. This may need to come at the expense of the current foreign marquee player rule. As far as I can recall this has only been used to bring in players from other SANZAR nations to date anyway.

 

[Thomond78]

BA would be great, I would love to go on a pilgrimage there and learn how to cook meat argentinean style I remember as a kid, the ABs would come back with tales from Argentina of how big the steaks are. As a meat freak this would be a great trip!!!

Grubster, here you go. http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Fires-Grilling-Argentine-Way/dp/1579653545

It's brilliant. One of the best cook-books imaginable; big, burnt, lumps of meat.

 

[Dr J]

I think the Foreign Quota should be lifted, to accommodate Argentinians. So any Argentinian Internationally eligible player, can play in the S15. I was hoping the Rebels would have signed at least a few.

I suspect most of the Argentinian internationals have contracts that tied them in until after the World Cup. Hoepfully we'll see a few being signed for 2012 Super Rugby. Melbourne has a "large-ish" expat community as well so it would make sense to sign a top international as one of their marquee players.

 

[Sudaca]

I am from Argentina, as long as I know the rebels didn't approach any Puma playing in Europe. Regarding the money, only the biggest stars make good $$$, the rest don't have salaries higher than the SUper 15.
The way they play is usually dictated by the coaches, there are 2 schools of playing in different clubs in Buenos Aires, where most of the Pumas come from, one group of clubs that play 10 men rugby and another group that really play expansive fast open rugby.
Therefore, the forwards usually come from one group and the backs from another group.
For those planning to go, don't go for the meat only, the girls are extremely pretty, I remember when the wallabies where touring in the 90's a groups of 2nd rowers (easy to spot, 6,5 and dressed in gold) turning around every 3 minutes to check the girls arses in the middle of the CBD.

From what I know they would like to move from Europe to the Super 15 franchises, but Europe for them is much closer and many youngsters also go there to study and play rugby too.

Felipe contepomi, the captain, played for Leinster in Ireland with the clear clause on his contract that he will be allowed to study medicine, but his salary was half the other players.
a Similar scenario applies to many others in the Pumas
If I was a super 15 coach I would look into a good uni in Sydney to lure them........they will be cheaper than many kiwis and for them it will be like a dream to play super rugby.

 

[RugbyFuture]

Do all these conferences produce competitive rugby players and could they all produce financially viable Super outfits? Unfortunately, I'm sure there would be a professional league there already if they could.

doubt it, its most likely a failure to implement structural change from the amateur system to the proffessional one.

 

[Thomond78]

To quote my brother, who was at the time tutoring in the RCSI, back in MP (Moana Pasifika) in 2006, after Cnuttypony missed a kick: "And I saw your neuro results - and they were shit, too!"

 

[DPK]

I am from Argentina, as long as I know the rebels didn't approach any Puma playing in Europe. Regarding the money, only the biggest stars make good $$$, the rest don't have salaries higher than the SUper 15.
The way they play is usually dictated by the coaches, there are 2 schools of playing in different clubs in Buenos Aires, where most of the Pumas come from, one group of clubs that play 10 men rugby and another group that really play expansive fast open rugby.
Therefore, the forwards usually come from one group and the backs from another group.
For those planning to go, don't go for the meat only, the girls are extremely pretty, I remember when the wallabies where touring in the 90's a groups of 2nd rowers (easy to spot, 6,5 and dressed in gold) turning around every 3 minutes to check the girls arses in the middle of the CBD.

From what I know they would like to move from Europe to the Super 15 franchises, but Europe for them is much closer and many youngsters also go there to study and play rugby too.

Felipe contepomi, the captain, played for Leinster in Ireland with the clear clause on his contract that he will be allowed to study medicine, but his salary was half the other players.
a Similar scenario applies to many others in the Pumas
If I was a super 15 coach I would look into a good uni in Sydney to lure them........they will be cheaper than many kiwis and for them it will be like a dream to play super rugby.

Welcome aboard, and thanks for raising a very interesting point; Australia has an excellent education system and surely this can lure many young players who are looking not just to play rugby abroad but to set themselves up for their futures.

Get Macqueen to find a mate, get him on the board of Monash Uni and bring in those rip-roaring Argies.

 

[farva]

What is the current Argy team like? I really havent heard much since the 2007 RWC, and I think most of the stars would have gone by now.