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are the IRB nuts ?

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swingpass

Peter Sullivan (51)
kurindrani gets 8 weeks + 1 - 4 = 5 for a clumsy but not a malicious tackle. we all know the IRB are trying to stamp out dangerous play, but this is the sort of ban that people used to get for stomping on someones head.
with this precedent the next next deliberate and dangerous tackle should get 12 - 15 weeks. am i too old school or do we think this punishment is justified ?
 

Dam0

Dave Cowper (27)
DON'T LIFT PEOPLE IN THE TACKLE

One day the edict will sink in, but until then people will keep copping big bans. I have no issue at all with this ban. A tip tackle gone wrong is the most dangerous thing in our game, bar nothing and we need to stamp it out. Whilst pros have strong neck and shoulder muscles, 99% of the game is played by people who don't and these are the ones who can end up paralysed by this sort of tackle.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
DON'T LIFT PEOPLE IN THE TACKLE

One day the edict will sink in, but until then people will keep copping big bans. I have no issue at all with this ban. A tip tackle gone wrong is the most dangerous thing in our game, bar nothing and we need to stamp it out. Whilst pros have strong neck and shoulder muscles, 99% of the game is played by people who don't and these are the ones who can end up paralysed by this sort of tackle.

How many weeks should Umaga and Meealmu get for their "tackle" on O'Driscoll?
 

Dam0

Dave Cowper (27)
What has that got to do with the price of fish? It is no kind of point to say that because one decision was wrong we should continue to make wrong decisions.
 

swingpass

Peter Sullivan (51)
What has that got to do with the price of fish? It is no kind of point to say that because one decision was wrong we should continue to make wrong decisions.
i agree with you but it sets a precedent, which in my opinion will NOT be followed. worse tackles, stiff arms, punches and stomping (deliberately) will get lesser sanctions
how many weeks will the fijian captain get for lifting the italian half upside down ? none because he only got a yellow for a deliberate act, and as far as i know wasn't cited.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
What has that got to do with the price of fish? It is no kind of point to say that because one decision was wrong we should continue to make wrong decisions.

That wasn't the point of me reminding younger viewers of the O'Driscoll incident.
My point was partly what swingpass said and partly how do you think the land of the long white cloud would react if they got sentencing parity????
 

Dam0

Dave Cowper (27)
I have a low tolerance for poor quality trolling, sorry. If you are going to troll, at least keep the quality up. Say something original or at least mildly clever.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
I had a bit to do with a New Zealander who was rendered a paraplegic during a bit of mucking around at his park rugby team training night. He was lifted in a lineout, and accidentally dropped on his head.


I just cannot understand how top rugby players can continue to do what Kuridrani did. His action was a bit suspect in a tackle earlier in the game, too.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
I have a low tolerance for poor quality trolling, sorry. If you are going to troll, at least keep the quality up. Say something original or at least mildly clever.

It may be poor quality trolling because its not trolling at all.
We can all see the need to eradicate stupid dangerous tackles from the game.
There is a question of consistency.
I had a bit to do with a New Zealander who was rendered a paraplegic during a bit of mucking around at his park rugby team training night. He was lifted in a lineout, and accidentally dropped on his head.


I just cannot understand how top rugby players can continue to do what Kuridrani did. His action was a bit suspect in a tackle earlier in the game, too.
Ban lifting. Including at the kickoff!
 

waiopehu oldboy

George Smith (75)
How many weeks should Umaga and Meealmu get for their "tackle" on O'Driscoll?
Ridiculous as it now seems, what Umaga & Mealamu did was at the time perfectly legal even though everyone knew it was incredibly dangerous & that sooner rather than later someone would get seriously injured whereupon sanity would prevail & that type of clean out would be rightly deemed dangerous play. To no-one's surprise that's exactly what then happened.

TV3 ran some video & audio of the TJ yelling " 2 black, let him go, let him go" & waving his flag around just before BOD got "speared": footage got pulled due to supposed copyright issues but I've always felt the reason the footage got pulled & KM & TU escaped sanction was the IRB's own official being culpable for what happened. Even in some of the surviving YouTube footage it's possible to see if not hear the TJ's agitation.

Just to be clear, what happened to BOD should never have happened but was within the rules/ laws of the game at that time. If anyone's to blame for the injury it's the IRB committees that devised, recommended & approved the rule.
 

Dam0

Dave Cowper (27)
The issue in this thread is whether the punishment handed to Kuridrani fits within the avowed aim of preventing tip tackles. I say that it does and I applaud it. No clue what a poor decision 8 years ago by a citing official - not even a judicial decision - has to do with this thread, especially since it was made before the current edict was put in place.

But congratulations, you managed to get a response with your piss poor trolling.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Rubbish Waiopehu oldboy.
Dangerous play has always been illegal and this was nothing less.
But thats not really the point: Kurindrani was stupid - it wasnt even poor technique it was a stupid act because it involved a lifting motion.
The sentence is out of proportion to the crime and that is because we are a pissant nation at the moment in the rugby world.
As for you Dam0 from your lofty perch as the world's best you fail to see how we minnows are treated.
 

swingpass

Peter Sullivan (51)
we all know that rugby is potentially dangerous, it is a contact sport with no padding and physical domination is part and parcel of the game. dirty and illegal play is to be condemned outright, and sanctioned accordingly, in my opinion the bans for foul play are not long enough, but the nature of the game involves risks and accidents happen, clearly even in training.

so, if in a lineout someone gets tipped upside down and injured through clumsy technique or competing for the ball, what sanction should there be ? i have never seen a yellow card or send off for the offender, penalties aplenty, but never a more serious sanction.

two years ago we all marvelled how the beast was able to lift anton bresler and hold him, what if he had dropped him, who's to blame matewera or bresler for the jump ? and would he have been cited for dangerous play ?

two front rows regularly collapsing, often deliberate, we see warnings, yellow cards for repeat infringements but never a sanction for clumsy or dangerous play.

i think there should be significant difference in the sanctions for intentional and reckless as distinct from accidental, clumsy and dangerous. IMO 2 weeks would have been appropriate for kurindrani. digby ioane, got 5 weeks last year for a much more dangerous tackle and he was a repeat offender.

so the bar is now set at 8 weeks plus one for a "lesson" less time off for good behaviour. so now the IRB have certainly toughened up on this aspect of the game in recent times, just hope they are consistent. deliberate spear tackles will need to get 20 weeks plus, but if they start to penalise all aspects of the game that are potentially dangerous, (lineouts, scrummaging, jumping for the high ball, (izzy could have got a couple for the "screamer" he took over genia) the physical contest will be ruined.

i applaud the efforts to minimise risk in the game but in this instance i thought the sanction too harsh.
 

waiopehu oldboy

George Smith (75)
Rubbish Waiopehu oldboy.
Dangerous play has always been illegal and this was nothing less.
But thats not really the point: Kurindrani was stupid - it wasnt even poor technique it was a stupid act because it involved a lifting motion.
The sentence is out of proportion to the crime and that is because we are a pissant nation at the moment in the rugby world.
As for you Dam0 from your lofty perch as the world's best you fail to see how we minnows are treated.
Not rubbish at all. Citing commissioner found there was no case for Tana & Keven to answer as their actions were within the then-definition of a clean out & did not constitute dangerous play. Both definitions were changed as a result of what was an obviously dangerous, but legal, action.

As far as Kuridrani is concerned I agree that 5 weeks is ludicrous but you can't compare the offences & sanctions as they occurred under differing rule interpretations.
 

RoffsChoice

Jim Lenehan (48)
I have to agree with Dam0 here, an accidental screw up is still a screw up and this is one of those screw ups where "I didn't mean to" is not a defence.

That said, I do believe that almost every citing judiciary in rugby, be it SANZAR, IRB, whatever, is essentially spin the wheel and get something between life ban and no punishment.
 
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