2016 ISA Waratah Shield and inner ear infections

[sarcophilus]

I am hesitant to start a thread that will disappear out the back quickly but there are a few things worth thinking about or airing

The ISA has had, what would seem on some levels, one of its most successful years.
At a representative level it was the only other undefeated association in the state and produced numbers of state (and national) representatives to reflected this. unlike the other strong association that compete in this sport, this association is an open circle (admittedly for non government schools) that sees the value of "rugby culture", supports and is good for the future of Rugby in this state and is probably one of the few opportunities to broaden a narrowing participant base.
Saying this it is not without its problems

The Waratah Shield is in its 52nd year, and I wonder if it due for retirement or significant re-birthing. In an attempt to avoid significant mismatches and embarrassing forfeits the last two years has seen it changed to a competition of pool matches and a cross pool final series. It has failed in both these objectives. ISA Sports high schools and a couple of ACT schools have dominated the results in this comp fromthe early 1990s. Government High schools (that are not sports high schools) AICES and CCC use the Waratah cup as a vent for state wide Rugby aspiration and may be performing the role as realistic aspirational tool for more casual participants.

Bearing in mind participation in sport is an important part of growing children into adults, though maybe only as important as learning: reading, writing, critical thinking and developing a healthy social conscience.
Participation in the shield for the regular suspects has meant players can be playing highly competitive, combative physical games twice a week which may compromise school work, physical recovery and over all life balance.

is there a way ahead that does not interfere with the functioning of the middle ear

 

[sarcophilus]

at the risk of only talking to myself
there are 5 division 1 teams in the ISA that are remotely competitive( the most consistent two of the top four would not be out of their depth in games against GPS or CAS teams even out of pre season trials

the two exclusive association place no value in the Waratah shield (except Scots in 1990) and more recently Barker. in fact Knox have been almost actively destructive in its approach in 2012 to 2014 where they chose to forfeit in the semifinals

there are two schools in the ACT that are itching for consistent competition? two games a week is too much at this level
the two exclusive Associations are circling the coaches and changing the timing of their competitions, meaning there will be even less cross conference trial matches, trips to play Eddies or Marist in the ACT for ISA teams are becoming more common

The two teams that have been regularly soundly beaten may find happier hunting grounds in ISA division 2

ISA div 1 finished yesterday, there is over 6 months to plan next year or at least start flagging ideas for 2017

 

[DaSchmooze]

Sadly - the role that Rugby plays in the two closed associations only forms part of a total education experience. Whilst we look at it from the outside looking in, we can see that a promotion relegation system would work wonders for all Saturday sport Rugby schools, but the branding that the CAS and GPS have is a too precious commodity to get rid of simply for the cause of Rugby. The combined history and tradition of these associations out weigh the needs of our sport.

I wish it was different than this but I get it.

 

[sarcophilus]

Sadly - the role that Rugby plays in the two closed associations only forms part of a total education experience. Whilst we look at it from the outside looking in, we can see that a promotion relegation system would work wonders for all Saturday sport Rugby schools, but the branding that the CAS and GPS have is a too precious commodity to get rid of simply for the cause of Rugby. The combined history and tradition of these associations out weigh the needs of our sport.

I wish it was different than this but I get it.

Sport should be only part of the educational experience. and I recognise the value, to those entities, of the closed associations. I do not expect that they will change. My thoughts in this thread are around the health of the charges participating in the sport at all levels.

• High performers should not be ridden to the ground
• Social players or team members from schools with a less developed rugby capability should be able to play competitive matches and not be beaten up every week
• Stannies, Oak Hill, Pats and Augies players are playing Saturdays and Wednesdays to keep up with finishing the Waratah shield and ISA comps on time. We heard from last weeks result that Oak Hill lads are playing on "one leg" I would guess they are not loan rangers in this, Given this association makes up 4 out of the last 8 n the shield
• might it not make sense ISA 1st div. nick the shield off NSW Rugby (given there seems to be a lack of interest in promoting it in any form this should not be hard) invite the top ACT teams to join and have a longer running once a week thing
• and leave the Waratah Cup with NSW for those schools that do not have as highly developed programmes, and are not necessarily committed to Saturday participation.

 

[DaSchmooze]

• High performers should not be ridden to the ground
• Agreed - I feel a lot of school associations sacrifice the well-being of their students to get a short term result on the paddock
• Social players or team members from schools with a less developed rugby capability should be able to play competitive matches and not be beaten up every week
• True - if you look at girls Netball or Eastern Suburbs School Touch, they deal with this issue quite easily. The grade the teams based upon the capabilities which will ofetn see a schools first grade team play in a 3rd grade comp. This makes a lot of sense and events out the competitions. Applying it to Rugby would be difficult as it could see teams from numerous schools playing in a variety of venues over the weekend. A sports masters nightmare I would think
• Stannies, Oak Hill, Pats and Augies players are playing Saturdays and Wednesdays to keep up with finishing the Waratah shield and ISA comps on time. We heard from last weeks result that Oak Hill lads are playing on "one leg" I would guess they are not loan rangers in this, Given this association makes up 4 out of the last 8 n the shield. Might it not make sense ISA 1st div. nick the shield off NSW Rugby (given there seems to be a lack of interest in promoting it in any form this should not be hard) invite the top ACT teams to join and have a longer running once a week thing and leave the Waratah Cup with NSW for those schools that do not have as highly developed programmes, and are not necessarily committed to Saturday participation.
• I think the idea has merit. It would interesting to see if Canberra Marist, Grammar and St Eddies are up for the idea - essentially becoming associate members of the ISA. A logistical nightmare for staff but would definitely see an already improving ISA bolster its reputation and playing stocks. I've often thought that the ISA is far more malleable and open to change that the other two.

 

[sarcophilus]

And another forfeit in the 1/4 finalsof the Waratah shield
I am guessing HSC trials are on, and academic pursuit may be dominating decision making at this time (as you would expect to happen at school)
unfortunate that Pats have finished their ISA season with three losses to teams still in this knock out comp (until last Wednesday )...probably helped them decide disturbing the week was of no further benefit.

 

[Runner]

[teams to join and have a longer running once a week thing and leave the

• I think the idea has merit. It would interesting to see if Canberra Marist, Grammar and St Eddies are up for the idea - essentially becoming associate members of the ISA. A logistical nightmare for staff but would definitely see an already improving ISA bolster its reputation and playing stocks. I've often thought that the ISA is far more malleable and open to change that the other two.

[/quote]

The only association that has had any growth has been the ISA,BUT
I can see that in time without some development across the associations the already small field of rugby school with effective programs will shrink further

 

[Hugh Jarse]

St Andrews had a brief stay in Division I, and have returned to Division II. Chevalier have dropped to Division II a fair while ago. St Pius must be on the brink of moving to Division II, and the St Gregory's programme may benefit from some time and confidence building victories in Division II.

While no individual AICES school could garner the numbers of players to stand alone, it would be good to see a metro AICES rep team play in Division II.

If one or more ACT Schools join ISA for regular competition, it would have a fairly dramatic impact on the ACT School and JRU competition. It could either kill it off completely, or rejuvenate it completely by taking out some of the very one sided thrashings. This may encourage some of the traditionally "weaker" schools and clubs to stand up teams in a more even competition.

 

[DaSchmooze]

Good point. From what I can gather, opinion seems pretty split about that point down there. I think removing particularly eddies from the comp would be a good thing to even out everyone else down there. I think there's more scope for the ACT to engage more fully with the Southern Inland comp and potentially develop numbers in both school and club out of Goulburn too.

Logistically, I think it would be possible to present a case to ISA schools that you could bundle participation against a Canberra school or two with a visit to the war memorial, questacon, gallery etc. Make it a sporting/cultural/curriculum immersion and it ,ay make more sense to get the ball rolling. Schools could book AIS resies for a Friday night and then travel home Saturday afternoon.

 

[sarcophilus]

If one or more ACT Schools join ISA for regular competition, it would have a fairly dramatic impact on the ACT School and JRU competition. It could either kill it off completely, or rejuvenate it completely by taking out some of the very one sided thrashings. This may encourage some of the traditionally "weaker" schools and clubs to stand up teams in a more even competition.

I wonder if the lack of interest in the Waratah shield has been a result of the dominance of ACT schools and then ISA schools. given these schools are dedicated to their own Saturday competitions, do they need a week day contest? I have seen posted in ACT schoolboy threads that club teams are not playing the school teams at the end of the season this may also be a contributing factor. Why turn up to a non contest?

 

[Runner]

One could also suggest that the ISA has developed into a strong competition while some have not maintained what they had.
Perhaps more CAS or GPS school could enter.

 

[DaSchmooze]

I wonder if the lack of interest in the Waratah shield has been a result of the dominance of ACT schools and then ISA schools. given these schools are dedicated to their own Saturday competitions, do they need a week day contest? I have seen posted in ACT schoolboy threads that club teams are not playing the school teams at the end of the season this may also be a contributing factor. Why turn up to a non contest?

And it's fair enough too. If you're trying to get a Rugby program off the ground, enter the Waratah Shield, and then draw Auggies or Oakhill in round one, there's no way you're going to want to expose your fledgling group to the whalloping you're about to receive. It would be counter productive and cause more harm than good.

I truly believe that the only way you can continue to make Waratah Shield work, is if the big schools with big rugby programs enter it and contest it properly. That is to say, GPS, CAS, ISA and the Canberrans sending full strength teams up against each other. The Waratah Cup seems to make more sense to me if your school doesnt have a large Rugby program. Seeings that this is highly unlikely I dont hold out much hope for the shield. I wish it wasnt so.

 

[Quick Hands]

Unfortunately the Waratah Shield has been on its death bed for a few years. The changing demographic of state comprehensives and the increase in private schools has made it largely irrelevant.

I read on a number of threads people seeing the success of some of the St Augustines and Oakhill teams and extrapolating from that, that they should be in some sort of super schools league with GPS schools. Let's add a dose of realism to this. Each of those schools run about the same number of teams as do Sydney Grammar - perhaps a higher standard, but their presence in such a super competion would not be helpful to the overall rugby programmes of anyone.

 

[sarcophilus]

the opportunity for the fantasy super rugby school comp has existed for 50+ years and has been ignored by the two older associations. That's fine. The ISA has developed as a third (non government) pillar with a wider base (though a bit wobbly as it has only four or five points of contact). I would hope the growth of the ISA over the past 20 years might continue, though I am concerned that the energy of a handful of staff at each of the schools is what maintains that culture. If this is a veneer and there is no succession plan it wont take much to start backsliding. I hope the ISA can continue to have a growing influence in schoolboy ruby and maybe in time like our banking system there will be four pillars CAS CHS GPS and ISA

Unfortunately I agree about the state of the Waratah Shield. As much as I do not want the ISA to become isolationist, maybe the 1st Div ISA schools could enjoy the status of that competition and leave the Shield to everyone else. Unless of course the ACT schools continue the raid then someone has to protect the family jewels

 

[Quick Hands]

I think that you are close to the mark re ISA. I've noticed in the past 2-3 years that Augustine's have maintained their numbers, but Pats, Stannies and Oakhill seem to have dropped off a little both in terms of depth and strength in the age groups.

IMO having three separate associations running Saturday competitions is a good thing - and the arrangement is not unique. For example the Philadelphia Inter Athletic Conference was formed in 1887 and functions just like our AAGPS.

 

[Runner]

I would have assumed that the Waratah Shield would have been a good vehicle for the 4 associations to contest. Even as a replacement for trials.
No one would suggest that they all play in a super competition as the school sizes and cultures are different etc.
Changing leadership or coaches as has happened can see strong schools fall away. No school can guarantee success long term without a plan and that plan would need people above the heads of those school to be the driving force as heads change.

 

[Quick Hands]

I would have assumed that the Waratah Shield would have been a good vehicle for the 4 associations to contest. Even as a replacement for trials.
No one would suggest that they all play in a super competition as the school sizes and cultures are different etc.
Changing leadership or coaches as has happened can see strong schools fall away. No school can guarantee success long term without a plan and that plan would need people above the heads of those school to be the driving force as heads change.

But some schools are set up to play weekend sport and other schools are set up to play weekday sport. It's why the length of the school day and the amount of days in the school year differ. The Waratah Shield was designed to be played by state schools, and only much later were private schools were allowed to play in it.

It fits in really well if every school that is in it plays Wednesday afternoon sport.

 

[Runner]

I will accept the history as you have stated it.

However, I believe ISA games have been played where both were on the line. ISA points and Waratah Shield. So flexibility must exist or did.

 

[sarcophilus]

Pilot at the first gate on the 2015 ISA thread​

"Is it now time for ISA to adopt a home and away season?
The draw is out and first game up is Auggies v Oakhill. The winner should win this years ISA shield. Stannies have a tough away draw this year and could cause an upset but I would fancy their chances if they had the 2 big sides at home. Pats and Gregs have some good players coming through but maybe next year will be a closer comp."​

 

[Quick Hands]

I will accept the history as you have stated it.

However, I believe ISA games have been played where both were on the line. ISA points and Waratah Shield. So flexibility must exist or did.

I think that you are right that in the past Oakhill and Augustines have played their Waratah Shield game and ISA fixture at the same time.