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2012 6 Nations

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Manuel

Herbert Moran (7)
I've read here and elsewhere people saying Priestland had a bad game... His kicking was poor but his ball-in-hand game was outstanding!! He uses the weight or the speed of his backline, depending on the situation, to perfection, with hard runners as Roberts, Davies and Cuthbert plus an exceptional player as George North (he's only bloody 19!). I think this is the best backline in the 6N. The french one (when we actually find one) may compete soon, but definitely not yet.
 

Bardon

Peter Fenwicke (45)
One change to the Ireland team to face France and that's Keith Earls coming back into centre, Fergus McFadden drops to the bench and Dave Kearney out of the squad. So it's the exact same 22 that were named for Wales before Earls had to withdraw.

Ireland team to face France at the Stade de France: Rob Kearney (Leinster), Tommy Bowe (Ospreys), Keith Earls (Munster), Gordon D'Arcy (Leinster), Andrew Trimble (Ulster), Jonathan Sexton (Leinster), Conor Murray (Munster); Cian Healy (Leinster), Rory Best (Ulster), Mike Ross (Leinster), Donncha O'Callaghan (Munster), Paul O'Connell (Munster) cpt, Stephen Ferris (Ulster), Sean O'Brien (Leinster), Jamie Heaslip (Leinster).

Replacements: Sean Cronin (Leinster), Tom Court (Ulster), Donnacha Ryan (Munster), Peter O'Mahony (Munster), Eoin Reddan (Leinster), Ronan O'Gara (Munster), Fergus McFadden (Leinster).
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Saffers playing 6 nations
Rugby365
Seven successful wanderers

Wed, 08 Feb 2012 17:31

Saturday opened the 2012 Six Nations. In the six teams there were seven whose schooling was in South Africa. Three played for England, three for Italy and one for Scotland.

Bradley Barritt, Mouritz Botha and Matt Stevens played for England, Corniel van Zyl, Quinton Geldenhuys and Tobie Botes for Italy and David Denton for Scotland. Three of them are locks. Barritt, Botes and Denton made their international debuts.
Lock Mouritz Botha, who turned 30 at the end of last month, is the interesting one. He had played no representative rugby when he left South Africa for Bedford eight years ago. He was born in Vryheid but went to Hoërskool Calvinia at the foot of the Hantam Mountains where sheep are farmed, a dry area. Botha's father Herman is still on the staff of Laerskool Calvinia. The stars in the night skies are bright and clear but it is not the best place for a rugby star to shine. Oh, there have been Springboks born there - Percy Allport, George Daneel, Sakkie de Klerk, Gert Brynard and Attie Strauss. Of them De Klerk also attended Hoërskool Calvinia. The school is proud to have a framed England jersey which Botha had signed.
Botha took himself to the Tygerberg College (now Northern Northlink College) and played for Parow NTK with hopes of making the Western Province Vodacom side. He did not manage that but sent his CV to Bedford in England and got a playing job with lowly Bedford Athletic and worked till Bedford took him in for four seasons. Since 2009 he has played for Saracen and in 2011 made his debut for England before the World Cup.
Corniel van Zyl, 33 at the end of last month, was born in Nelspruit and went to school at Hoërskool Ficksburg in the Eastern Free State. He played lock for the Pumas and then the Cheetahs and then went over to Italy to Benetton Treviso whose coach is the Springbok Franco Smith.
Quintin Geldenhuys is Van Zyl's lock partner in the Italian scrum. He was born in Klerksdorp on 19 June 1981 and went to school at Monnas. In 1999 he went to Craven Week and later played for SA Under-21 and Natal, before he headed for Northern Italy and the small town of Viadana where rugby rules. He first played for Italy in 2009.
The third Italian is newboy Tobie Botes, a 27-year-old scrumhalf who made his debut as a replacement flyhalf against France in Paris and kicked a lengthy penalty goal. He had played for Boland and was playing for Griquas when he went to Benetton Treviso. Like his club-mate Willem de Waal, Botes is a past pupil of Boland Landbou near Paarl.
Another debutant was David Denton, a loose forward from Kingswood in Grahamstown who had an outstanding match as an eighthman for Scotland and was named the official RBS Man of the Match, even though his side lost to England. Denton, who turned 22 the day after his debut, went to Kingswood from Zimbabwe and his parents flew from Zimbabwe to see him play. What good timing! Whereas those we have mentioned have qualified by residence, Denton qualifies through his mother who was born in Glasgow.
The other debutant this weekend was centre Brad Barritt of Saracens, formerly of Natal/Sharks. He had played for SA Under-21 and for the Emerging Springboks before heading for England, qualified top play for England. Barritt comes from a remarkable rugby family - the fourth generation to play representative rugby. His father Bruce was a lock for Zimbabwe in the early 1980s, his grandfather lock for Rhodesia from 1947 to 1956 and his great grandfather Joe, whose nickname was Ox, was a prop in 1922. Bradley was born in Durban on 7 August 1986 and went to school at Kearsney College.
The other Kearsney old boy is Matt Stevens who was born in Durban in 1982 and in 2002 moved from the University of Cape Town to Bath. The strong prop now has 40 caps for England.
Both Barritt and Stevens represented KwaZulu-Natal at Craven Week.
 

Bardon

Peter Fenwicke (45)
England are unchanged for Italy game:

England team to face Italy at the Stadio Olimpico, Rome: Ben Foden; Chris Ashton (both Northampton), Brad Barritt, Owen Farrell, David Strettle; Charlie Hodgson (all Saracens), Ben Youngs(Leicester); Alex Corbisiero (London Irish), Dylan Hartley (Northampton), Dan Cole (Leicester); Mouritz Botha (Saracens) Tom Palmer (Stade Francais); Tom Croft (Leicester), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Phil Dowson (Northampton).

Replacements: Rob Webber (Wasps), Matt Stevens (Saracens), Geoff Parling (Leicester), Ben Morgan (Scarlets), Lee Dickson (Northampton), Jordan Turner-Hall, Mike Brown (both Harlequins).
 

Bardon

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Change to the French team named for Saturday. Yachvili is carrying a knock so Parra is starting, Julien Dupuy onto the bench as cover.
 

the plastic paddy

John Solomon (38)

Consider and Compare..................Pearson the TJ bottled the card recommendation BUT, Ryan who Davies dumped had illegally shoulder charged
Jones immediately prior and should have been pinged.
So are you not allowed to contest the ruck now having come straight through the gate? The ball was still in so there was absolutely nothing illegal about Donnacha Ryan's challenge on Adam Jones. And anyway that does act as mitigation for the assault by Davies (please can people stop calling it a tackle, Ryan didn't have the ball). I am not complaining because the decision not to send him off cost Ireland the game because we had plenty of opportunities which we failed to take anyway. Not sending Davies off will make it more likely that someone winds up paralysed and if/when that happens the game of rugby could be in existential trouble given the litigious world in which we live.

The citing commisioner actually cleared the Ferris tackle of even being a penalty but again I am not going to whing about it; as the Ulsterman will know himself it was clumsy enough looking within kicking range and you can't blame Barnes for his decision. For what it is worth, having awarded the penalty, Barnes was correct to yellow card Ferris IMHO. These challenges simply have to be stamped out before someone is permanently disabled and zero tolerance is the way to do that.

Given the brutal weather in europe at the moment there has to be some doubt as to whether or not the France V Ireland game will go ahead on saturday night BTW.
 

Dai bando

Charlie Fox (21)
Good responces frpm both plastic Paddy and Bardon, The trouble with common sense is , Its not very common. I think Barnes is one of the better refs, once he had given a yellow for a tackle he had'nt seen he had no choice when he saw the ferris tackle,
That a ref has a split second to interpret any foul play makes them all different. Therefor there will always be contentious calls, it is the way of the beast.
But I don't believe that a fixed or automatic red is the answer either, Two very sound responces from the two members I have already mentioned, on other boards not so, It may run and run untill as you say there is a very serious accident, or could it be construed as something else if a player is lifted past the horizontal and driven or let go to the ground then gets seriously injured.
 

Bardon

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Half time Italy 12 England 6. After 20 odd minutes it looked like there could be no score in the first half. Then England got 2 penalties to take a 6-0 lead. Italy's scrum was creeking a bit before Castrogiovani had to go off with a rib injury and it's only gotten worse.

But a night mare last 2 minutes from Foden lead to 2 tries for Italy. The first try was a somewhat aimless kick through close to the English line that rebounded off Foden's chest right into the greatful arms of Venditti who dived over in the corner for the try. Burton dragged the conversion across the post but it was very difficult one for a right footer given it was on the right touchline.

Then 2 minutes later Foden throws and intercept pass to Benvunuti who had the pace to run unopposed from half way and dot down under the posts. Easy conversion for Burton to make it 12-6 at half time.

What was a pretty boring game other than the tightly contested set pieces is set up for a cracking second half. Hopefully Italy don't persist with their obvious attempts to wheel the scrum by marching around. They've been pinged for it a couple of times already. England have looked shaky on their own ball in the lineout.

It would be a famous win for Italy if they can pull it off in the second half. But still a lot of rugby to go and as the final 2 minutes of the first half showed it doesn't take long to turn a game on it's head.
 

Bardon

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Final score Italy 15 England 19. The game turned on one charge down and two substitutions. Hodgeson got a charge down try for the 2nd week running. Then Youngs woh'd looked clueless all game was replaced by Dickson who injected pace for England. Burton got the hook due to his poor general play and was replaced by Botes. Ben Morgan also looked good for England when he came on.

Botes then absolutely butchered two very kickable penalties, ironically the one thing that Burton was doing well at. Possibly you could point a finger at Parise for poor captaincy in opting for the 2nd kick at goal rather than going down the line. But that would be harsh and he couldn't predict that Botes' 2nd attempt would be even worse than the first. After that miss Italy never really threatened.

So England 2 from 2 now without being all that impressive. Next up for them the Welsh and if they win that there will be murmurs of a Grand Slam at HQ.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Good summary Bardon. The replacement of Burton looked odd and early, but I thought he was hooked because he fluffed a couple of penalty kicks for touch - and Botes had lifted the team the week before when he came off the bench. Unfortunately he had an unhappy game this week.

The England subs 9. Dickson and 8. Morgan made a difference for them though.

Youngs didn't have a great RWC and his form has been patchy for Leicester since then in the games I have seen. He's not his old self and Lancaster may do well to bench him until he gets his mojo back, in favour of Dickson. who provided spark for England when he got his shot.

Ben Morgan showed once more why he will the England no. 8 for some time to come once he gets his first start. One could even look down the track at Denton of Scotland, Faletau of Wales and Morgan of England contending for the Lions spot in years to come.

With 20 y.o. Gillian Galan of Toulouse to come into the mix in a couple of years time for France it looks like the NH will have a mortgage on elite young no. 8s in world rugby.
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
France/Ireland just got called off due to a frozen pitch.

ESPN telecast is funny, they get a feed with no information and they don't understand it's been called off.
 

Bardon

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Bit of a farce to call it off so close to kick off when it was known since Tuesday that this was going to happen. 8pm kick off, to suit TV, for an outdoor game during such cold weather is just stupid. March 2nd is the preliminary date set for the game to go ahead.
 

bryce

Darby Loudon (17)
Well that wasn't a surprise. 9pm local time for kick off didn't really help. This has been an incredible cold snap after such a mild winter. Feel for the Ireland fans who flew over there for the game. Ah well, I can think of worse places to be on a Saturday night with a game called off.
 

Bardon

Peter Fenwicke (45)
5-10 minutes after announcing they game was called off they annouced in the stadium that tickets would be honoured for the rescheduled game. But RTÉ, the Irish TV station, raised a good point. By then how many people still had their tickets?
 

Cardiffblue

Jim Lenehan (48)
Read the postings why we wouldn't beat the Irish, how scotland would beat the Saes, about how Priestland wouldnt play etc. With your record please back Jocks. The gnome is out of his box. BTW If I were Scottish, I'd kick for touch all day
 

Dai bando

Charlie Fox (21)
Disapointed about the France Ireland game, stayed in to see it, wife wasn't too happy either ;) England did just enough to win Poor kicking by italy let them in , scrum was interesting, the England Lose head seemed to be pushing up, which the ref did not ping all game, when Stevens came on scrum changed slightly.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
Dai Bando:

This is the second week in a row where the English scrum stands up when u takes pressure and the refs let them get away with it.

Italy are a good 10 away from being more than competitive. They would be a totally different team with a ten that can take command. Their forwards deliver good pill but their tens just bugger it up all day.
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Warburton ruled out, Scots have a decent shot here especially with their pack so understrength. Ryan Jones, Shingler, Ian Evans, Lydiate just returning - lots of quality missing.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Wales were still too good and won 27-13. It was 3-3 at oranges but Scotland blundered with the 2nd half kick off and Wales scored soon after. Then Scotland shot themselves in the foot with 2 yellow cards and Wales took their chances.

Poite is one of my favourite referees but didn't have his best game. He adjudged a Scotland pass to be knocked on but it wasn't and the subsequent "try" was disallowed. That was of no great importance as Scotland scored not longer after, but it raised the question, again, of the use of the TMO.

As yours truly has said several times on the forum: the IRB should trial the TMO system that France uses for their domestic competitions. There the TMO can be used to judge matters before the goal line after a try has been "scored": knocks on or matters like obstruction can be judged. It is not used as much as one would think; so there is not much downside of time wasting.

Poite would have invoked the use of the TMO on the occasion mentioned, and the try would have been awarded.
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