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School sporting scholarships/recruitment

Maul of Duty

Larry Dwyer (12)
With the GPS thread locked up at the moment, does anyone have team lists for the upcoming u18 Waratahs vs Reds that are being played in March. Was just thinking that this is getting closer and it would be good to see what schools each of the boys go to if they are still in school (I presume that they are). I have not been able to find any team lists or times for the games other that the SJRU pathways page showing that games will be in March
 

Mule

Jimmy Flynn (14)
Following! Asked same questions a few weeks ago but also can’t find anywhere ; perhaps they’re waiting for a few dual code kids to commit either way?
 

TBelly

Bob McCowan (2)
Still nothing and kick off in less than 72hrs!?
A little bit more but rugbyau says kickoff 1.30pm Saturday.
But absolutely agree that team lists for both Tah’s and Reds should have been out a week ago, especially since they’ve been training for a couple of months now and know who is in the squad. I read on the QLD forum they expect a team lists Wed-Thur. maybe Waratahs/RugbyAU doing the same.
Looking forward to the game though and think/hope it will be a tight one. No news on if it is being streamed?
 

Maul of Duty

Larry Dwyer (12)
1741126369719.png
 

master

Bob McCowan (2)
Only Sydney Grammar does not import, High imports like rest of GPS.

In Sydney Grammar's year 12 cohort, only about 5-7 kids arrived after year 7. Rest of GPS like High have like 40+, some even 50+ kids arrive after year 7.

@try_scorerr ,

I have had recent intel and knowledge that Joeys actually DO NOT have rugby orientated imports. They tend to give scholarships based on respective co-curricular practices rather than rugby and other 'sports'.

Just wanted to clear this up,

Cheers,

the master
 

NedKelly

Herbert Moran (7)
I hope you are correct about the section around sports scholarships disappearing.
If the GPS want to market themselves as the premier school grouping then they need to show they are the best in every competitive experience...inside and outside the classroom. They have a brand to protect.
My two cents on this.

The AAGPS don't need to 'market themselves as the premier school grouping'. They'll always be so simply by dint of the member schools all being among the oldest & most prestigious sandstone colleges in the country. No other association of schools comes close.

They don't need to prove themselves the best at every competitive experience to remain the most elite group of schools and even if they did, sporting scholarships isn't the way to go about it. A few individual scholarships does not create a strong & successful sporting culture.

Notorious instances of schools loading sporting teams with scholarship talent poached from Yr 10 or later have usually been about success in a particular landmark year (e.g. centenary or sesquicentenary) but success on that basis alone is never enduring and can be to the overall detriment of sporting development.

That said, I've no problem with a few scholarships spread over a number of sports within sensible limits, just as with academic, artistic or musical scholarships. What concerns me more is the growing number of kids being parked in GPS schools by NRL clubs who are able to dictate to schools when these boys can and cannot play.

The only winner there is the NRL, at rugby's expense.
 

CasualObserver

Sydney Middleton (9)
My two cents on this.

The AAGPS don't need to 'market themselves as the premier school grouping'. They'll always be so simply by dint of the member schools all being among the oldest & most prestigious sandstone colleges in the country. No other association of schools comes close.

They don't need to prove themselves the best at every competitive experience to remain the most elite group of schools and even if they did, sporting scholarships isn't the way to go about it. A few individual scholarships does not create a strong & successful sporting culture.

Notorious instances of schools loading sporting teams with scholarship talent poached from Yr 10 or later have usually been about success in a particular landmark year (e.g. centenary or sesquicentenary) but success on that basis alone is never enduring and can be to the overall detriment of sporting development.

That said, I've no problem with a few scholarships spread over a number of sports within sensible limits, just as with academic, artistic or musical scholarships. What concerns me more is the growing number of kids being parked in GPS schools by NRL clubs who are able to dictate to schools when these boys can and cannot play.

The only winner there is the NRL, at rugby's expense.
Without scholarships the comp would be uneven and there would be very little interest. Joeys attract a large proportion of "rugby kids" and as a result the underages are very one-sided. Most years Joeys would rarely drop a game in the 13's to 16s As and B. By opens, most schools have assembled a good 1st XV with "new kids" meaning it an open and interesting comp.

Rugby without scholarship may look like GPS cricket where Kings attract the "cricket kids" and are interested enough in cricket to "assist" cricketers, that aren't rugby players as well. Kings put out strong teams vs teams that are weakened by kids dropping cricket to concentrate on their rugby pre-season or playing basketball so they can be home from Saturday sport by 10am. As a result the comp is one-sided and pretty boring, with many serious cricketer considering playing Grade cricket rather than play in teams that aren't competitive in a comp where most teams lack depth to provide a decent level of cricket.
 

Crashy

Dick Tooth (41)
My two cents on this.

The AAGPS don't need to 'market themselves as the premier school grouping'. They'll always be so simply by dint of the member schools all being among the oldest & most prestigious sandstone colleges in the country. No other association of schools comes close.

They don't need to prove themselves the best at every competitive experience to remain the most elite group of schools and even if they did, sporting scholarships isn't the way to go about it. A few individual scholarships does not create a strong & successful sporting culture.

Notorious instances of schools loading sporting teams with scholarship talent poached from Yr 10 or later have usually been about success in a particular landmark year (e.g. centenary or sesquicentenary) but success on that basis alone is never enduring and can be to the overall detriment of sporting development.

That said, I've no problem with a few scholarships spread over a number of sports within sensible limits, just as with academic, artistic or musical scholarships. What concerns me more is the growing number of kids being parked in GPS schools by NRL clubs who are able to dictate to schools when these boys can and cannot play.

The only winner there is the NRL, at rugby's expense.
yeah I really struggle with kids deciding they can play or not. If you go to a school where sport is compulsory, you fucking play sport like everyone else.
 

CasualObserver

Sydney Middleton (9)
yeah I really struggle with kids deciding they can play or not. If you go to a school where sport is compulsory, you fucking play sport like everyone else.
It isn't compulsory for kids to play two sports in yr12 at all schools. Also, they may do fencing at 8am and be out by 8;30am and be off to Grade cricket.
 

NedKelly

Herbert Moran (7)
Without scholarships the comp would be uneven and there would be very little interest. Joeys attract a large proportion of "rugby kids" and as a result the underages are very one-sided. Most years Joeys would rarely drop a game in the 13's to 16s As and B. By opens, most schools have assembled a good 1st XV with "new kids" meaning it an open and interesting comp.
Joeys don't dominate underages because they 'attract a large proportion of "rugby kids"'. They dominate, especially from Bs & Cs downwards (not nearly as much in A teams), due to strength in depth, because it's compulsory for every kid to play sport, and every team right down to the Fs & Gs train at least twice a week with a 3rd afternoon playing internal 'colour' competitions.

This is about emphasis on tradition, culture, coaching and identifying those with the right stuff at an early age, not 'rugby kids'. Any number of Joeys 16A, 2nd & 1st XV players started out in B & C teams in U-13s & 14s where their heart, courage, competitiveness and determination were every bit as important as latent talent. As the old saying goes, it's not the dog in the fight, it's the fight in the dog.

I'll grant you that not every school (possibly not any school) has the same devotion to rugby as Joeys. For some, sport is not compulsory and even where it is, they do not train as often, are not as well coached and this along with less depth will make things uneven especially at B & C level and below. But it is vanishingly rare that just one or two players on inducements - scholarship or otherwise - has turned a mediocre GPS 1st XV into a championship side.

I'd be interested to hear what evidence you'd point to supporting the idea the comp would be uneven without scholarships. As another old truism goes, a champion team will always beat a team of champions, not least as those on scholarships often feel it's their divine right to be in the top team and have an individual rather than collective mindset.

For all that, let me reiterate I have no issue with schools offering a rugby scholarship or two each year especially where those kids are from families which could not otherwise afford to have their talents nurtured as they could be at a GPS school, Kurtley Beale for example (even though his was not a rugby scholarship). My major problem is NRL clubs using GPS schools to develop NRL players. It's my firm belief this is detrimental to the rugby culture of those schools and the future of Australian rugby.
 
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