Australian Junior Rugby Union

[Hugh Jarse]

This probably deserves a thread in its own right, rather than being buried in NSW Junior Representatives 2012 thread.

I am sure that we need more governing bodies to “control” teenage rugby, and it is great to see that the Australian Junior Rugby Union has apparently been reformed.

Does anyone know what are their objectives, roles, constitution and funding source of this very important body?

I expected that an august body, possibly even the peak body for Junior Rugby in Australia, such as the Australian Junior Rugby Union would have all that information on a fancy web site with links to all the junior affiliated bodies web sites and vice versa. Imagine my surprise to find that that there is more information on the inner workings of the Australian Secret Intelligence Service than the Peak body for Junior Rugby Union in Australia.
George Smith tells us of this inspired measure for what I assume will be the first $100k to be spent by the AJRU.

… snip…
Taylor appointed a full time administrator in Brisbane (circa $100k pa) to 'legitimise' the AJRU and wants to have tours to provide a pathway for club players (or maybe to compete with the prestigious Aust Schools' UK and other tours).

Funding will not be by sponsorship or fundraising dinners but by a levy on all junior players (incl minis)!

With approximately $2.00 profit made on every snag sold at Junior Rugby BBQ’s, that is only 50,000 sausage sangers that we need to sell to cover the Administrator’s costs before any other costs at the village clubs are covered. Wonder how much a tour or championship would cost?
IIRC I have read somewhere that ARU tip in $100k to run the Open Schoolboys competition. On that benchmark, that is another 50,000 sausage sangers that we need to sell in suburban ovals.
If each rugby oval can sustain 6 games of rugby per Saturday, over the 8 hour period from 9am to 5pm, and there are 20 players in each team, with each player bringing 2 spectators along, and 30% of the total people at the oval that day buy a snag, with $2 profit to go to AJRU to fund the Administrator and one Championship, over 450 all day Junior rugby sausage sizzles have to be held across this wide brown land before a cent is available for the clubs running the BBQ.
Taking a stab in the dark and assuming that there are 100 Ovals in Sydney alone. I have no idea of the actual number, but many of them do NOT run all day rugby, but stay with me here. SJRU typically run a 14 week competition. This will give us 1400 BBQ opportunities, of which 450 (or approx 33%) are needed to cover AJRU costs. Assuming that Sydney JRU represents 25% of all JRU ovals in Aust, then 25% of 33% (or approximately 10%) of all sausages sanger revenue at ALL junior rugby games in Australia will go directly to the AJRU to fund its operations. GST is 10%. AJRU is GST on Sausage Sangers.

Taking this one step further, it takes 2 people to operate the sausage sizzle. These two people (or a rostered combination) are required to be there for the full 8 hour period of the 450 BBQs above. The 450 BBQ’s then would require 900 volunteer days effort. With the average worker working 200 days per year, and the average wage in Australia being $60k, the Junior Rugby Volunteers are “donating” $270k in labour to raise the $200k needed to cover the Salary of the AJRU Administrator and one Championship. Very clever indeed (figures are rounded up/down for simple illustrative purposes).

Some background reading from the other threads attached.

Word along the grape vine is an Under 17's Australian Junior Rugby Team to be selected from Vic, ACT, NSW and QLD

And what purpose would that serve?
Would they be playing the Darkness Under 17's or some other international touring team Under 17 team?

Is this just another spray Jacket to add to the collection of "look at me, I'm someone important" attire to be worn at sporting events for the Manager and administrators of the Australian Junior Rugby Union?

What Australian Under 17 Junior Rugby Team would not include the potential for Western Australian Players to join in on the fun?

Would boys playing School only footy be able to play or is this limited to boys playing junior club footy at Under 17 level?

Are the loopholes available that allow kids who do not play junior club footy regularly to become eligible provided thay turn out on the long weekend in June for state championships?

What happens if the School does a "Jones" on a player and does not release them due to "1st XV commitments"?

This really sounds like an idea that has been hatched at the Lunatic Asylum known as Moore Park?

My snouts suggests that this does not have Paddington fingerprints on it and that they may indeed be opposed to it - rather it appears to be the brainchild of the junior unions - NSW & QLD!
It was a hot topic of conversation on the sidelines of a few GFs on the weekend.

BUT yes - it has the hallmark of legitimising handing out yet more gear to "worthy" hanger ons.

Last year the Australian Junior Rugby Union was resurrected by Paul Taylor (it had been dormant for a number of years but still had a bank acct etc). Taylor steps down this year as President of NSWJRU and desperately needed another gig to maintain kudos!
Taylor appointed a full time administrator in Brisbane (circa $100k pa) to 'legitimise' the AJRU and wants to have tours to provide a pathway for club players (or maybe to compete with the prestigious Aust Schools' UK and other tours).

Funding will not be by sponsorship or fundraising dinners but by a levy on all junior players (incl minis)!

This sounds like a recipe for disaster. Jobs for the boys and more ego stroking.
Unless the Schools boys are released, this will hardly be a representative Australian team, and unless they play against very carefully selected opponents, they will be a national embarrassment achieving results not dissimilar to those of Sydney Grammar in the AAGPS 1st XV competition.

The Peak bodies really need to sort out the BS between Aust Schools and Aust Juniors, and State Schools and State Juniors. So much waste, that we can ill afford.

If George is right regarding funding, I can also see some fairly serious push back from the Junior clubs, particularly those that don't field teams at High School ages.

If the snouts want an Australian Junior Rugby "Look At Me, I'm important" range of clothing, then FFS write to KooGaa or Canterbury and buy the damn thing. A Decent showerproof jacket is only about $120. I am sure that they could afford that. Do not burden ALL kids and parents in clubland.

This has Don Quixote written all over it, and appears to be the most ill considered concept I have heard of since the Peter Garratt Home Insulation fiasco.

Surely a cheaper option to stroke Mr Taylor's ego would be to establish an NSW JRU Presidents Honour Board like they do at Schools for the School Captain. Mr Taylor could have his name painted on that board, and received a nice plaque as well for his Pool Room. Far cheaper. Less impact. Taylor and cohorts egos should be satisfied.

If they actually want to have a viable alternate pathway to Aust Schools RU at U17 level, then do not create this artificial 2nd grade Quixotic construct entitled Australian Under 17's which would be monstered by NSW GPSII's let alone what QLD Whites would do to them.
Get off your chuff, down out of your ivory tower, roll up your sleeves and engage with CCC and CHS schools and encourage them to participate in Junior rugby as school representative teams if the school can not put together a stand alone team. There is an enormous talent pool available there, which if engaged with properly and developed could one day compete with the GPS/CAS/ISA teams.

Rather than continue to select from a small pool for Aust Under 17's, what are their plans to grow the pool of eligible Under 17's?
I'd be very surprised is any of the QLD and NSW GPS boys would be available for Under 17's duties.

Where does this Under 17's team feature in the ARU Pathway to Gold programme?
The ARU don't seem to recognise this artifice in their current literature, which leads me to think that there is little point in this folly. Farting against thunder springs to mind. http://www.rugby.com.au/tryrugby/PathwaytoGold.aspx

The Pathway to Gold program comprises of the following national programs:
• National U16 Championship
• Rugby’s Pathway to Gold Talent Discovery Program
• National Schoolboy Championships
• Australian Schoolboys Program
• Junior Gold Youth Sevens Program – Boys & Girls
• Junior Gold Program
• National Gold Squad
• National Academy
• Australian U20s

I will be less critical of this endeavour if it had ARU and State RU body endorsement and funding, and was part of an overall integrated (and funded) growth strategy.

It just sounds like the decision making process has been nearly identical to that of a couple of drunks down at the Cross at 4am on a Sunday Morning after an awesome Saturday night on the sauce agreeing that it would be cool idea to get a tattoo, right now.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Some information on this little known organisation taken from last years ARU Annual Report available from ARU web site.

THE year 2011 has been a watershed one for the Australian Junior Rugby Union. For some years there have been informal arrangements between members of the AJRU to participate in tournaments hosted by other members. It has been agreed by the members that these tournaments will move towards a national arrangement hosted by the AJRU.

Funding is always an issue for a volunteer organisation. AJRU members are all volunteer organisations funded by themselves and their ARU member affiliates. Pressure on funding continues to be a burden and AJRU members have confirmed their objective to break out of
this cycle.

Member events such as the NSWJRU State Championships and the QJRU State Championships were wonderful spectacles of the talent produced by Juniors. Smaller members of the Australian Juniors Rugby Union contributed to the pageantry of these events by sending representative teams from their programs to participate in these tournaments. Of particular note is the improvement in Victorian and West Australian entries in these competitions.

The highlight of the year was the tristate playoffs between ACT, NSW and Queensland. U15s, U16s and U17s from each union participated in a three day tournament in early October. It was NSW's year, but that did not diminish the intensity or the display of extraordinary talent from every team. ACT departed the playoffs to travel to West Australia where they played a number of games against WA Juniors. The Australian Junior Rugby Union is looking forward to 2012 with great enthusiasm.

AUSTRALIAN JUNIOR RUGBY UNION President: Paul Taylor, Vice President: Martin Sullivan, Secretary: Paul De Guigand

They didn't seem to achieve too much in 2011, but it looks like that did notice that QLD and NSW juniors had a state tournament each which others attend. They also seem to take credit for organising a 3 day tournament somewhere for 3 teams from 3 associates across 3 age groups which one of the participants visited WA on the way home.

There is also an intent to break out of a burdensome funding cycle. No details of how they will break that cycle. Maybe they intend to talk to the Balmain Rugby Club.

The AJRU executive appear to have earned their salary.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

And here is what they said in 2010 in the ARU Annual Report:

The Australian Junior Rugby Union is the representative of junior club Rugby, the nursery for club Rugby. As such it is a diverse organisation of passionate people spread across the length and breath of Australia.

All the delegates to the AJRU are volunteers who fill multiple roles with in the junior Rugby community and sometimes concurrently roles within the adult ranks of the game.
The resources of the AJRU are extremely limited and it is was not possible to assemble all the delegates for meetings due to resources and time considerations.

In 2010 as president I gave myself three tasks:
* To improve the relationship between the Australian Rugby Union and the Australian Junior Rugby Union,
* To attend the Annual General Meeting of the Australian Rugby Union and
* To develop a strategic plan for the Australian Junior Rugby Union.

Unfortunately the strategic plan did not happen. It is however important that a strategic plan for junior rugby be developed which includes input from each of the junior rugby organisations in the States and Territories and the Australian Rugby Union. This has to be done when all the
stake holders are gathered in a single location.

At this point in a summary of the year past it usual to thank the organisations sponsors, to announce the winning teams and to name the most outstanding players. The AJRU does not have any of those announcements to publish.

So at this time I shall say thank you, to the amazing group of people who are the heart and soul of the junior club Rugby community, the parents, team coaches, team managers and junior club officials and supporters who make junior club Rugby happen in Australia.
President: Tony Reddy

So the President sets 3 objectives himself: Improve a relationship, attend an AGM, and develop a strategic plan.
The Strategic plan objective was not achieved, but it must be assumed that the AGM was enjoyed and the relationship improved. Not hard to achieve the latter because there was NO mention of AJRU in the 2009 Annual Report, so the existance of this contribution in the 2010 report is evidence that the relationship has improved.

Two out of three ain't bad. The third (and arguably key) objective of developing a strategic plan was not achieved. What's more, it is of such import that the lack of a strategic plan, or achievement of one is not mentioned in the 2011 AJRU contribution to the annual report.

We seem to be well served by goal focused success oriented achievers.

 

[Man on the hill]

Given that NSWJRU has only 2 members - Sydney & Country Juniors, you have to wonder what they are upto to allow NSWJRU to get so apparently out of control. As to egos - i hear on good authority that the past president of MSWJRU had a healthy one.

 

[TOCC]

Everything in NSW rugby highlights why we need a independent commission to restructure rugby in Australia...

The very fact that NSW Rugby holds the majority vote at the ARU is scary enough considering the shambles and disconnect of groups and bodies within the state.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The Draw for the AJRU U17 Nationals has been released:
Friday 5th October 10:30 am Opening Ceremony
Friday 5th October 11 am VIC vs QLD (22 min each way)
Friday 5th October 12 pm ACT v NSW (22 min each way)
Friday 5th October 3 pm VIC v NSW (22 min each way)
Friday 5th October 4 pm ACT v QLD (22 min each way)

Saturday 6 October 9:30 am VIC v ACT (35 min each way)
Saturday 6 October 11:30 am NSW v QLD (35 min each way)
Saturday 6 October 1 pm Announcement of AJRU U17 Merit XV, and Tournament Closing Ceremony

In parallel with that NSW, QLD 1, QLD 2 and VIC are playing some U 15 Interstate games, which I think AJRU will be taking credit for but, unlike the U17's, they are not awarding these games the title of "Nationals".

Friday 11 am VIC v QLD 2 (22 min each way)
Friday 2 pm VIC v QLD 1 (22 min each way)
Friday 4 pm NSW v QLD 2 (22 min each way)
Saturday 9:30 am NSW v QLD 1 (22 min each way)
Saturday 12:00 am VIC v NSW (22 min each way)

Games to be played at Caloundra Rugby Club.

Just when you thought that AJRU would deliver nothing for the year. This will undoubtably be the highlight of the year for this august body.

I wish the players all the best, and know that they will play their hearts out. Same for the coaches, managers, support staff, referrees and the volunteers from the Caloundra Footy Club.

I sincerely hope the AJRU Opening and Closing ceremonies are appropriatly ceremonial, and the AJRU Officials are resplendently attired as befits their status.

 

[Don Parry]

The problem with 'blogs' like this is that there is no requirement for the writer to research the topic or in any way be factual.

As the AJRU Vice President and QJRU President I wish to add a few facts to the discussion.

No member of the AJRU Board is paid. I have never received an item of clothing for serving as a volunteer on this junior body. I have also never asked nor been given compensation for travel, phone or other costs by the AJRU.

The AJRU does not receive grants from the ARU nor any government department.

Many of the pathway opportunities in rugby are the domain of schools rugby and often elite schools rugby. The AJRU simply wishes to provide club juniors opportunity.

No junkets, no waste - just a group of volunteers trying to give junior club rugby players opportunity.

For the above stated reasons I find many comments in this thread truly offensive. After a wonderful, positive weekend in Caloundra I find this thread steals a volunteer's most valued possession - PASSION.

 

[hollowman]

Its most likely that both pathways are supported by passionate volunteers with only good intent. I observe a few problems

• the people involved in each pathway seem focussed on the faults of the other
• or competiting against each other rather than collaborating
• that both suffer from a lack of transparency and/or communication in their administration, selections etc etc.

Unfortunately this undermines the credibility of junior rugby pathways and those volunteers involved. There seems to be a lot of constructive feedback in these forums that might be good guidance for making the necessary improvements.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

So what are the AJRU objectives, roles, structure, constitution and funding source?

Who are the affiliated entities?

Where can we find information about the body?

How are the officials elected/appointed?

Are AGM minutes made available?

Any plans for a web site containing information aout the body?

Has a full time administrator been appointed in Brisbane (circa $100k pa) and if so where is the funds coming from for this?

Any plans for tours and National representative teams?

Are there any plans for funding to be raised from a levy on all junior players (incl minis)?

 

[Jets]

The problem with 'blogs' like this is that there is no requirement for the writer to research the topic or in any way be factual.

As the AJRU Vice President and QJRU President I wish to add a few facts to the discussion.

No member of the AJRU Board is paid. I have never received an item of clothing for serving as a volunteer on this junior body. I have also never asked nor been given compensation for travel, phone or other costs by the AJRU.

The AJRU does not receive grants from the ARU nor any government department.

Many of the pathway opportunities in rugby are the domain of schools rugby and often elite schools rugby. The AJRU simply wishes to provide club juniors opportunity.

No junkets, no waste - just a group of volunteers trying to give junior club rugby players opportunity.

For the above stated reasons I find many comments in this thread truly offensive. After a wonderful, positive weekend in Caloundra I find this thread steals a volunteer's most valued possession - PASSION.

Don it would be great if you could proved us with the information mentioned by Hugh above. If you read through the thread I think you will notice that a lot of points have been raised that could be answered with some transparency from the AJRU. I for one don't see the point of the organisation but could be convinced if provided with some relevant information, the goals of the organisation and a strategic plan to achieve these goals. If you put an article together I am sure they would post it on the blog page and the AJRU would generate some interest among passionate rugby people.

 

[zacf01]

Transparency is a foreign word to the QJRU and i am now getting the feeling that it goes all the way to the AJRU.

 

[Don Parry]

I love someone who complains about transparency and then publishes as zac101

Here is a few sites you may like to look through.

www.qjru.com.au

https://www.facebook.com/pages/QJRU-State-Titles/135702559796086

I accept that the AJRU and QJRU could be better at talking directly to the grassroots of junior rugby rather than attempting to go down the food chain (regions and then clubs).

Before you completely bag out volunteers please consider whether any level of rugby in Australia is good at communication, consultation and collaboration.

You are either part of the problem or part of the solution and without having the fortitude to publish under your real name it is difficult for me to appreciate which camp you are in.

 

[Don Parry]

I have recently published a consultation (green) paper seeking input in to the future direction of junior rep rugby in Queensland. This has been distributed to all our affiliates (regions). If you haven't seen it the bottleneck is at regional or club level.

My email address is:- don@qjru.com.au

If anyone emails me requesting a copy I would gladly send it to you and welcome a response.

Don Parry
President
QJRU

 

[Don Parry]

I have been a Level 3 Coach since 1996. I have coached state age and the Australian Women's team (The Wallaroos) to the 2002 World Cup. I am a Life Member of my club and my region. My children are all in the twenties. My only reason to stay involved (volunteering) is to help your children get the opportunity they earn.

I am not against schools rugby. I have given schools rugby over 20 years of service in one form or another.

I argue that junior rep rugby (the best kid today) is not the same as talent identification (a guess at who will be a potential professional rugby player in 5 years or more).

The AJRU and QJRU are 50 years old and are charged under their constitutions to look after junior club rugby players up to the age of 19.

The AJRU and QJRU have struggled to understand their role since the professionalisation of rugby.

We might have become dinosaurs of a past era if professional rugby had embraced the understanding that junior club rugby, just as much as schools rugby, is a vital part of their supply chain.

Like schools rugby has an Australian Schoolboys team as a flagship for participation in schools rugby is it not as valid that the AJRU have an Australian U17 team as a flagship for junior rugby?

If I am wasting my time or you want to step up and do the job please let me know.

Don

 

[hollowman]

Good on you for responding Don. Its really useful to hear directly from a representative of the AJRU about what's happening and that you are consulting within your state. I am unaware of any other communication effort.

Also appreciate that the rugby community is mostly made up volunteers, yet the expectations are that we have the resources to run professional organisations.

If you are able to answer some of the questions that people have posted we might be in a position to actively support what you are trying to achieve. You may be abe to use this forum to get some useful feedback on your consultation paper.

 

[Bowside]

Don there are a mountain of threads and comments in the Schoolboys section containing ideas on growing the game. I even started a thread a while back myself (http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/community/threads/growing-qld-schoolboy-rugby.7346/). If you are ever looking to kill some time or are looking for new ideas I recommend having a browse.

All the best.

 

[Thin Thighs]

cut....

The AJRU and QJRU are 50 years old and are charged under their constitutions to look after junior club rugby players up to the age of 19.

.....cut....

Like schools rugby has an Australian Schoolboys team as a flagship for participation in schools rugby is it not as valid that the AJRU have an Australian U17 team as a flagship for junior rugby?


Don

If the AJRU remit is to go to under 19 for junior club rugby, why is Under 17 seen as the flagship team for AJRU?

Are schools players eligible for AJRU teams?

What is the eligibility criteria? What if my son was playing for his club in 2012 at U16, but there isn't enough numbers to have a team in 2013? My boy has played village club rugby since he was 4. Can he register with his club as a 17 year old, even if they don't have a team?

 

[Jets]

I have recently published a consultation (green) paper seeking input in to the future direction of junior rep rugby in Queensland. This has been distributed to all our affiliates (regions). If you haven't seen it the bottleneck is at regional or club level.

My email address is:- don@qjru.com.au

If anyone emails me requesting a copy I would gladly send it to you and welcome a response.

Don Parry
President
QJRU

Thanks for that Don. I sent through an email today and look forward to reading it.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

.../snip/....
I accept that the AJRU and QJRU could be better at talking directly to the grassroots of junior rugby rather than attempting to go down the food chain (regions and then clubs).

Before you completely bag out volunteers please consider whether any level of rugby in Australia is good at communication, consultation and collaboration.

You are either part of the problem or part of the solution and without having the fortitude to publish under your real name it is difficult for me to appreciate which camp you are in.

I am in both camps, that is part of the problem, and potentially would love to be part of the solution.

Like most volunteers in rugbydom, I am a passionate supporter of our game, and for good causes will cook BBQs, raffle, and fund raise for as long as in necessary. (part of the solution)

I (and many others in grass roots) am not happy working my buttocks off raising money for some "anonymous" levy, or a secretive body which I know nothing about. (part of the problem). Raising this thread to try and bring things in the open is an attempt to be part of the solution.

Before you completely bag out volunteers please consider whether any level of rugby in Australia is good at communication, consultation and collaboration.

An extremely correct statement, but accepting that this must remain the status quo is a defeatist attitude.

Down here in the Premier State, there is an obvious disconnect in the smooth and efficient communication chain running unbroken between AJRU, and the schools and Village clubs my boys are associated with, because we have heard NOTHING, hence raising this thread to get some discussion going. Others spoken to (face to face not on these anonymous threads) from different clubs, districts and Schools in Metro Sydney are likewise mushrooms.

QJRU seem to have circulated something. Has NSWJRU done similar? The only thing I can find is the Garling Report. What has the AJRU circulated for discussion, or are they waiting for feedback from others (such as the QJRU green paper) before committing?

Any chance of the main points of the QJRU draft being tossed out on these threads for discussion?

There are a few here that would criticise Mother Theresa. Ignore them, but by and large Gaggerlanders are a helpful, passionate and positive bunch. You may be surprised at our capacity.

We like to feel that we are part of the Steamroller rolling on into the future, rather than part of the road, watching the Steamroller that just ran over us disappear into the distance.

 

[Newbie]

Pardon my pun but a 'SOLID' statement from the Hollowman @ #8

Profound!